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re: Constitutional lawyers : Is Walmart demand to show receipt legal?
Posted on 5/8/20 at 1:37 pm to Ice Cold
Posted on 5/8/20 at 1:37 pm to Ice Cold
quote:
Coincidentally, I saw a graphic today showing that LA is one of a handful of states to require at least one hour of civics/AmGov to graduate HS. I don't know where the OP is, but perhaps he missed that course.
What part of a civics course would teach that I must show a receipt to a store employee when exiting the store after paying another store employee for my purchases. Waiting .......
0
Posted on 5/8/20 at 1:39 pm to ItTakesAThief
quote:
Private property. No reason they can’t ask for your receipt.
Agreed. No reason I cannot refuse to provide it.
Posted on 5/8/20 at 1:43 pm to tigersbb
quote:
23 pages later the law has not been produced, just vague store policy.
You have been told many times no such law exists.
However, that does not prevent you from being stopped for violating the store’s theft prevention rules. It’s just that in this specific situation the store did not represent to the police that you were suspected of committing a crime. Therefore you were allowed to leave with no further action by law enforcement beyond requesting your cooperation.
Had the receipt checker or manager told the officer they suspected you of stealing, the officer would have been within his authority to stop you briefly to investigate if the facts provided by the store gave him reasonable suspicion you were breaking the law.
This post was edited on 5/8/20 at 1:46 pm
Posted on 5/8/20 at 1:46 pm to tigersbb
quote:
The Walmart process does not involve an allegation of criminal action, yet requires patrons to prove their innocence of some possible crime. The mere act of refusing to comply with their demand to see a receipt is not a crime. By extension the employee involving the police for no probable reason is a possible defamatory action when it subjects a patron to public police questioning.
Again, you’re conflating a non-government actor, Wal-Mart, and a government actor, the police.
There doesn’t have to be a law for Wal-Mart to ask to see your receipt. It can be an internal store policy and they’re free to run their business as they see fit. But when you refuse to show the employee the receipt, he can go to the police and report his suspicion that you may be trying to steal something by refusing to show proof of purchase. That then gives the police officer probable cause for the stop.
And the employee’s report to the police officer is not defamatory due to Kennedy v. EBR Sheriff.
This post was edited on 5/8/20 at 1:47 pm
Posted on 5/8/20 at 1:47 pm to tigersbb
quote:
Agreed. No reason I cannot refuse to provide it.
Correct. Just don’t bitch whenever it causes a scene, garners the attention of law enforcement, or causes everyone to think you’re a douche.
Posted on 5/8/20 at 1:48 pm to tigersbb
If it bothers you so much, shop elsewhere. That'll show them.
Posted on 5/8/20 at 1:58 pm to tigersbb
Their property their rules. If you don’t like it exercise you’re right to do business elsewhere.
Posted on 5/8/20 at 1:59 pm to Ice Cold
quote:
Coincidentally, I saw a graphic today showing that LA is one of a handful of states to require at least one hour of civics/AmGov to graduate HS. I don't know where the OP is, but perhaps he missed that course.
Then again, even educated people continue to show a lack of critical thinking skills.
Well, his response to you along with the thread title and some posts demonstrate that he either missed it or didn't grasp it or didn't retain it, IF he took one.
Posted on 5/8/20 at 2:03 pm to tigersbb
quote:
there is actually a law compelling me to comply the officer might not be so benevolent. 23 pages later the law has not been produced, just vague store policy.
No only do you misunderstand how the Constitution works, you misunderstand how laws work.
For Walmart to be in the wrong, a law would have to prohibit their behavior. A private company's rules do not have be authorized by law, they just can't be prohibited by law.
It isn't complicated to anyone but you.
Posted on 5/8/20 at 2:08 pm to gumbo2176
If the store suspects you of stealing, it won't be granny at the door- it will be loss prevention goons. Big difference in granny or the goons, and two different situations.
When Walmart receipt checker asks for your receipt, they are in fact detaining you, however momentarily. So for all the bitching I've seen about overreaching by the government and others during the kung flu lately, a lot of folks seem happy look the other way over a store's policy that is not necessary. It's the principle in why I keep walking and if it upsets granny at the door I refuse to provide papers, I'm pretty sure she doesn't really care.
Slippery slope when everyone is happy to comply to being detained in the store, but what happens when Walmart takes it a step further and starts to detain you leaving the premises in a vehicle? Or does a pat-down at the door? Wants to look in your pockets or purse?
When I pay for something, it becomes my property the moment that money exchanges hands. Get your receipt and exit the store, they already have you on camera making the purchase anyway.
When Walmart receipt checker asks for your receipt, they are in fact detaining you, however momentarily. So for all the bitching I've seen about overreaching by the government and others during the kung flu lately, a lot of folks seem happy look the other way over a store's policy that is not necessary. It's the principle in why I keep walking and if it upsets granny at the door I refuse to provide papers, I'm pretty sure she doesn't really care.
Slippery slope when everyone is happy to comply to being detained in the store, but what happens when Walmart takes it a step further and starts to detain you leaving the premises in a vehicle? Or does a pat-down at the door? Wants to look in your pockets or purse?
When I pay for something, it becomes my property the moment that money exchanges hands. Get your receipt and exit the store, they already have you on camera making the purchase anyway.
Posted on 5/8/20 at 2:11 pm to Rep520
quote:
It isn't complicated to anyone but you.
I give up. The OP is hopeless.
Posted on 5/8/20 at 2:18 pm to boosiebadazz
quote:
There doesn’t have to be a law for Wal-Mart to ask to see your receipt. It can be an internal store policy and they’re free to run their business as they see fit
I asked because if there is a law then I would be forced to comply whether I liked it or not.
Since there is no law then I can refuse which leaves the store with a decision. While I understand there may be no defamatory action pending how the situation played out there may be some broader issues down the road.
I think you would agree there has been case law created off of seemingly innocuous things like this. Lets say someone challenged any stores making all exiting shoppers de facto criminals and having to prove their innocence to the receipt sentinel. Some aggravated a-hole like me might elect to make the federal courts rule on it. While stores may operate their stores as they please there are still laws or jurisprudence which supersede store internal policy. There may be no such strictures today but tomorrow there may be.
Posted on 5/8/20 at 2:19 pm to tigersbb
quote:
They interjected the police
They have the right to ask the police to check you. Doesn’t mean the police have the right to check you, but Walmart has the right to ask them to.
quote:
Police did not pursue any further as there was no crime alleged
So your rights weren’t violated, at all.
Walmart has the right to ask for a receipt, you can tell them to frick off. They can ban you from their store. Everybody’s happy
Posted on 5/8/20 at 2:23 pm to tigersbb
quote:
Lets say someone challenged any stores making all exiting shoppers de facto criminals and having to prove their innocence to the receipt sentinel.
That’s not what they are doing, 99.9999% of them. Yours may have tried to force you to, or you could be over dramatizing it for this thread, we will never know. But they do and will always have the right to ask for it, they do not have the right to force you to show it. Again, like my last post, they will just ban you for coming back in
Posted on 5/8/20 at 2:23 pm to Rep520
quote:
No only do you misunderstand how the Constitution works, you misunderstand how laws work.
For Walmart to be in the wrong, a law would have to prohibit their behavior. A private company's rules do not have be authorized by law, they just can't be prohibited by law.
It isn't complicated to anyone but you.
I dont give a damn about their rules , that is their business. When I complete a purchase and make payment I am exiting the store with purchase and receipt. If there is no law compelling me to provide the receipt I am walking out every time without responding to the request There is no law authorizing them to ask for receipts and there is no law prohibiting me from ignoring them either.
Posted on 5/8/20 at 2:23 pm to tigersbb
quote:
Lets say someone challenged any stores making all exiting shoppers de facto criminals and having to prove their innocence to the receipt sentinel
That is not what the store is doing. Stop conflating concepts. That is not what is happening.
quote:
Some aggravated a-hole like me might elect to make the federal courts rule on it. While stores may operate their stores as they please there are still laws or jurisprudence which supersede store internal policy. There may be no such strictures today but tomorrow there may be.
That suit gets thrown out immediately, and you will be paying Wal Mart’s costs. You agreed to the store’s loss prevention policy when you did business with them. Unless their behavior is prohibited by law, you are subject to their policies. You have NO PRESUMPTION OF INNOCENCE with regards to a private businesses loss prevention policy. Your presumption of innocence would not apply until you were arrested and charged with shoplifting, which would be done by law enforcement and not the store.
As people, including myself, have said: you can just say no and leave. But don’t be shocked when the store then involves the authorities, who may or may not have the authority to stop you depending on the circumstances. How is this so difficult for you to understand?
This post was edited on 5/8/20 at 2:28 pm
Posted on 5/8/20 at 2:26 pm to tigersbb
quote:
There is no law authorizing them to ask for receipts and there is no law prohibiting me from ignoring them either.
You just can’t stop showing off how dumb you are. The fact that you keep touting the lack of a law authorizing a private business to do something is a clear sign that you know nothing about the Constitution and apparently failed basic civics.
This post was edited on 5/8/20 at 2:29 pm
Posted on 5/8/20 at 2:27 pm to tigersbb
quote:
am walking out every time without responding to the request
Until they no longer allow you back inside
Posted on 5/8/20 at 2:33 pm to windshieldman
I can't believe everyone has let OP frick with them for 24 pages
Posted on 5/8/20 at 2:34 pm to jchamil
quote:
I can't believe everyone has let OP frick with them for 24 pages
At this point it’s pure fascination. He’s very dedicated to this troll or he’a cognitively challenged.
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