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re: Constitutional lawyers : Is Walmart demand to show receipt legal?
Posted on 5/8/20 at 11:41 am to tigersbb
Posted on 5/8/20 at 11:41 am to tigersbb
quote:
What say you civil libertarians?
That you’re retarded and that they are a private business and can set their own policy. Now, had you pulled a slippin’ Jimmy and fallen and hurt yourself when your arm was grabbed, I’d be slow-clapping your impending settlement. As it stands, you just wasted your time and theirs.
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Posted on 5/8/20 at 11:41 am to Indefatigable
quote:
Says you. The store can determine that it is reasonable to alert the authorities if they suspect you are stealing. There does not need to be a law empowering them to do so.
The sentinel told the police I was not being accused of stealing. At that point I walked away.
Posted on 5/8/20 at 11:42 am to tigersbb
quote:
The sentinel told the police I was not being accused of stealing. At that point I walked away.
Then it sounds like everything worked exactly as it should, and you have nothing to bitch about.
Posted on 5/8/20 at 11:48 am to dukke v
quote:
Wow. Your dad should have pulled out...... sorry but you are wrong here on so many levels...... it’s really sad.
Since you cannot seem to get past ad hominem comments I will give you one last chance. Please prove how I am wrong. I purchased items, paid for ALL items, peacefully and without comment proceeded to the exit. The receipt sentinel asked to see the receipt and i said no and continued walking. The sentinel grabbed my arm and I said you dont have the right to do this. Now identify where I did something WRONG. Waiting ......
Posted on 5/8/20 at 11:56 am to tigersbb
quote:
The broader question is whether a customer is obligated to show a receipt for already legally purchased items . That seems to imply the store has a right to presume any and all customers are guilty of a crime until they deem otherwise.
Yeah, they do. If you don't like Walmart asking for your receipt, you don't have to shop there.
Here's a real suggestion for you. If you want to hear why you're completely wrong from a legal scholar, file a civil suit vs Walmart.
I'd wager a judge will be happy to explain why you're wrong and have you pay Walmart's legal fees to compensate them for having to deal with the nuisance.
Posted on 5/8/20 at 12:04 pm to Rep520
quote:
Yeah, they do. If you don't like Walmart asking for your receipt, you don't have to shop there.
You are about the 250th person to state this yet not a single person has justified their doing so other than to state it is store policy.Which implies once you are in the store you must comply with any and ll demands they make.
My policy is once I purchase and pay the items and receipt are my property and I have no obligation to prove my innocence of anything absent a specific allegation of a crime.
This post was edited on 5/8/20 at 12:06 pm
Posted on 5/8/20 at 12:16 pm to tigersbb
quote:
You are about the 250th person to state this yet not a single person has justified their doing so other than to state it is store policy.Which implies once you are in the store you must comply with any and ll demands they make.
My policy is once I purchase and pay the items and receipt are my property and I have no obligation to prove my innocence of anything absent a specific allegation of a crime.
You just keep conflating legal standards imposed on law enforcement and the government with the ability of private businesses to enact whatever policy they choose to enact. And you're hilariously wrong.
They may not enforce the policy, and they may not have any real physical option to do so, but the store CAN have that policy. It is as simple as that, and there are ZERO constitutional implications.
You made a thread asking a question. Don't you think the fact that damned near every single response has been the same should have given you your answer by now?
This post was edited on 5/8/20 at 12:25 pm
Posted on 5/8/20 at 12:21 pm to tigersbb
quote:
once you are in the store you must comply with any and ll demands they make.
Uhh...yea. When people are in my house they do whatever the frick I say. Same concept
Posted on 5/8/20 at 12:24 pm to Indefatigable
quote:
You just keep conflating legal standards imposed on law enforcement and the government with the ability of private businesses to enact whatever policy they choose to enact. And you're hilariously wrong.
They may not enforce the policy, and they may not have any real physical option to do so, but the store CAN have that policy. It is as simple as that, and there are ZERO constitutional implications.
I can't believe this shite thread about a non-constitutional issue has gone 22 pages. Your post explains it perfectly.
I'm surprised how often I'm asked (which I speak at employment law seminars) about constitutional "free speech" rights at a non-governmental place of employment.
Posted on 5/8/20 at 12:27 pm to tigersbb
quote:
You are about the 250th person to state this yet not a single person has justified their doing so other than to state it is store policy.Which implies once you are in the store you must comply with any and ll demands they make.
My policy is once I purchase and pay the items and receipt are my property and I have no obligation to prove my innocence of anything absent a specific allegation of a crime.
"Your policy" is immaterial.
Walmart would be within its rights to have a policy that you cannot leave the store with your goods unless you provide a receipt. It does not matter whether they believe you to be Dudley Doright or Queen Shopliftah.
ETA: Your repetition of a shitty legal theory makes you sound like one of the sovereign citizens.
This post was edited on 5/8/20 at 12:29 pm
Posted on 5/8/20 at 12:32 pm to Indefatigable
quote:
You just keep conflating legal standards imposed on law enforcement and the government with the ability of private businesses to enact whatever policy they choose to enact. And you're hilariously wrong.
They may not enforce the policy, and they may not have any real physical option to do so, but the store CAN have that policy. It is as simple as that, and there are ZERO constitutional implications.
At no point did I EVER state the store cannot enact whatever policy they want.
I agree they have no option to enforce their show the receipt policy. My original question was is there any legal requirement for customers to have to show their receipts when exiting. If not, then there is no basis to invoke police involvement to ENFORCE the store policy.
If they involve the police then constitutional issues arise as there is now governmental involvement.
Posted on 5/8/20 at 12:36 pm to chinhoyang
quote:
"Your policy" is immaterial.
No, we have mutually exclusive policies. Once I decline then under what authority or law can I be forced to comply with their policy? Neither you or anyone else has provided the answer. This was the premise of my post so I give you an opportunity to respond.
Posted on 5/8/20 at 12:37 pm to tigersbb
Wow, 22 pages on this
Posted on 5/8/20 at 12:44 pm to tigersbb
quote:
My policy is once I purchase and pay the items and receipt are my property and I have no obligation to prove my innocence of anything absent a specific allegation of a crime.
Well, when you open up a store, you can implement your policies. When you visit someone else's store, you abide by their policies.
I can walk around shirtless outside. When Walmart tells me no shirt, no service, I don't rant about my own no shirt policy.
quote:
Which implies once you are in the store you must comply with any and ll demands they make.
Stores are barred from discrimination like segregation. They are free to enact non-discriminatory policy.
Anyone with firing neurons can figure out receipt checks are a non-discriminatory policy to deter shoplifting. Your refusal to confront that as well as the fact a private company has no constitutional dimension...you're either trolling or impervious to learning.
Posted on 5/8/20 at 12:59 pm to tigersbb
quote:
My original question was is there any legal requirement for customers to have to show their receipts when exiting. If not, then there is no basis to invoke police involvement to ENFORCE the store policy.
Once again, there does not have to be a law requiring customers to show their receipt in order for the store to properly and legally request police involvement.
If the store believes that you are shoplifting and/or attempting to do so, and provides those facts to the police...the police have reasonable suspicion that you are engaging or about to engage in a criminal act, which gives the officer the ability to perform an investigatory stop.
This post was edited on 5/8/20 at 1:01 pm
Posted on 5/8/20 at 1:00 pm to Rep520
quote:
Well, when you open up a store, you can implement your policies. When you visit someone else's store, you abide by their policies.
I can walk around shirtless outside. When Walmart tells me no shirt, no service, I don't rant about my own no shirt policy.
I don't disagree with much of what you posted. However the fact remains I made a legal purchase and was not stealing. My policy is I dont respond to the store demanding to see a receipt regardless of their motivation. Given no one has yet to provide a basis for them to demand to see a receipt other than store policy I take it they have no enforcement authority as I am actually leaving the store.
If I was in violation of their policy while shopping prior to checking out they can request I comply. For instance I see customers with profanity on their shirts and suppose the management can ask them to change or leave ( setting aside free speech issues for another 20 page discussion).
This post was edited on 5/8/20 at 1:10 pm
Posted on 5/8/20 at 1:01 pm to tigersbb
quote:
Given no one has yet to provide a basis for them to demand to see a receipt other than store policy I take it they have no enforcement authority as I am actually leaving the store.
Everyone has given you the correct answer, you are just too dumb and/or stubborn to accept it. Store policy enables the store's attempted enforcement. Because in this specific instance the policy involves prevention of a criminal act, the police are empowered by your state's criminal laws.
If there was a policy that you had to turn around three times and spit before leaving the store, Wal Mart could still attempt to enforce it. However, the cops are not going to respond and have no authority to intervene.
Wal Mart has very little they can physically do to enforce the policy. If the store suspects you of committing a criminal act they can alert the police, who are within constitutional authority to then stop you and investigate. Period.
There does not have to be a law in place for a store to attempt enforcement of internal policy. What enables the investigatory stop, with the requisite reasonable suspicion of criminal activity, are your local and state laws against shoplifting, etc.
This post was edited on 5/8/20 at 1:11 pm
Posted on 5/8/20 at 1:05 pm to tigersbb
You picked a stupid hill to die on.
Posted on 5/8/20 at 1:05 pm to tigersbb
How do any of us know you didn’t steal something??????
Plus AGAIN it takes like three seconds for them to do this...... I will never understand why YOU are making such a big issue about something so trivial. It’s really sad....
Plus AGAIN it takes like three seconds for them to do this...... I will never understand why YOU are making such a big issue about something so trivial. It’s really sad....
Posted on 5/8/20 at 1:08 pm to Indefatigable
quote:
Once again, there does not have to be a law requiring customers to show their receipt in order for the store to properly and legally request police involvement.
True. This policy creates a defacto presumption that all shoppers are guilty until proving their innocence. They ae free to to so just as I am free to ignore it. If they involve police I simply ask have you accused me of a crime.If not then I simply walk away otherwise I am being illegally detained for no reason. Under that premise I have no obligation to produce a receipt for anyone.
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