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Message
re: Catholics to excommunicate priests who follows Washington law about reporting child abuse
Posted on 7/19/25 at 1:59 pm to GentleJackJones
Posted on 7/19/25 at 1:59 pm to GentleJackJones
quote:
Correct me if I’m mistaken as I’m not a Catholic, but how would a priest report it? They’re confidential right? Behinds a screen in the confessional booth? You don’t introduce yourself in the confessional, right?
Confessions can be behind a screen or not.
Regardless, a priest cannot even divulge that a penitent did or did not go to confession.
So if a bad actor with the state has an axe to grind with a particular priest, parish, or diocese - under the WA law all they would have to do is compel a priest to the stand in court in a sexual abuse case.
Even if the priest has never interacted with the abuser or has zero knowledge of the reported abuse, he would testify to the protection of the Sacrament when asked.
The state could then arrest said priest.
A similar situation presents itself in nearly every firearm legislation. Of note recently being red flag laws. On the surface, seems like a good idea. Until bad actors with the state decide to use the law to punish people they don’t like.
This post was edited on 7/19/25 at 2:04 pm
1
Posted on 7/19/25 at 2:01 pm to CapitalTiger
quote:
Confessions can be behind a screen or not.
Regardless, a priest cannot even divulge that a penitent did or did not go to confession.
So if a bad actor in the state has an axe to grind with a particular priest, parish, or diocese - under the WA law all they would have to do is compel a priest to the stand in court in a sexual abuse case.
Even if the priest has never interacted with the abuser or has zero knowledge of the reported abuse, he would testify to the protection of the Sacrament when asked.
The state could then arrest said priest.
Exactly right. There were a ton of reasons, never mind the constitutional argument, that this goofy law was totally unenforceable.
Not only that, it's not like priests keep a register of who attended confession. You can go to any church and confess to any priest. Are they supposed to stop the confession and demand contact info to turn in to police? Tear down the divider to get a look at their face? It's all BS.
This post was edited on 7/19/25 at 2:04 pm
Posted on 7/19/25 at 3:53 pm to Sterling Archer
They 100% should. The seal of confession is inviolate. There should be no way that law withstands judicial scrutiny.
None.
None.
Posted on 7/19/25 at 4:17 pm to Mid Iowa Tiger
If the law stands (it should IMO) and getting clergy to abide by it are two different things.
People "confess" to their pastors, rabbis, preachers and priests all the time. While the Catholic denomination has formalized the process, Catholics don't have a lock on confession, and nor are their processes outlined in the Bible.
Pastoral service is difficult and emotional draining; hence the burnout in this profession. People tell them everything and seek Biblical counsel. Generally these thing aren't illegal and I would hope that if someone ever confessed to molesting a child, our pastors would turn the vile POS in as soon as possible.
Saying that "it is a 2000 year-old tradition" is not going to be enough, IMO, especially given the teachings of Jesus himself. He is very clear on the matter.
But that's just my opinion as a Christian. I'll abide by what the courts say.
People "confess" to their pastors, rabbis, preachers and priests all the time. While the Catholic denomination has formalized the process, Catholics don't have a lock on confession, and nor are their processes outlined in the Bible.
Pastoral service is difficult and emotional draining; hence the burnout in this profession. People tell them everything and seek Biblical counsel. Generally these thing aren't illegal and I would hope that if someone ever confessed to molesting a child, our pastors would turn the vile POS in as soon as possible.
Saying that "it is a 2000 year-old tradition" is not going to be enough, IMO, especially given the teachings of Jesus himself. He is very clear on the matter.
But that's just my opinion as a Christian. I'll abide by what the courts say.
Posted on 7/19/25 at 4:19 pm to N2cars
quote:
I'll abide by what the courts say.
good to know
Posted on 7/19/25 at 4:20 pm to N2cars
That's a whole lot of words just to say you support unconstitutional laws.
Posted on 7/19/25 at 4:21 pm to Sterling Archer
I am a firm believer in separation of church and state. The state of Washington cannot interfere with the religious beliefs of others. Shame shame shame on them.
Posted on 7/19/25 at 4:22 pm to DeathValley85
Religious freedom is your argument, I assume?
Posted on 7/19/25 at 4:23 pm to GRTiger
If only the Church felt the same way, right?
Posted on 7/19/25 at 4:25 pm to N2cars
Oh no, we caught the attempted smarm. It was clear where you were going there. It just came out super gay and I don't think you meant it to.
Posted on 7/19/25 at 4:25 pm to N2cars
quote:
Religious freedom is your argument, I assume?
Not "my" argument, pretty open and shut case you're arguing against here.
Posted on 7/19/25 at 4:27 pm to DeathValley85
It doesn't seem to be.
Has the law been struck down?
I've heard both answers in this thread...
Has the law been struck down?
I've heard both answers in this thread...
Posted on 7/19/25 at 4:28 pm to GRTiger
But it was ok for you to do it?
Posted on 7/19/25 at 5:22 pm to Sterling Archer
What about lawyers? Should lawyers report child abuse from their clients to the law?
What about other laws broken reported to priest? If you rape a 18 yr old female, it’s fine to keep it quiet. But if you rape a 17 year old female, you have to report it? What a difference a day makes.
What about other laws broken reported to priest? If you rape a 18 yr old female, it’s fine to keep it quiet. But if you rape a 17 year old female, you have to report it? What a difference a day makes.
Posted on 7/19/25 at 5:42 pm to kciDAtaE
quote:
What about lawyers? Should lawyers report child abuse from their clients to the law?
According to the state of Washington, no. Attorney-client privilege is still protected.
Which is a big reason they got bitch slapped by the courts and will ultimately get bitch slapped by SCOTUS - if protecting children is so fundamentally important why didn't they do it everywhere?
Posted on 7/19/25 at 6:00 pm to N2cars
quote:
Has the law been struck down?
Posted on 7/19/25 at 6:20 pm to Sterling Archer
""it would be better if a millstone be hanged around their neck" is a quote from the Bible, specifically from Matthew 18:6 and Mark 9:42. It's a strong expression used by Jesus to emphasize the severity of causing someone, especially a child, to stumble in their faith or commit sin."
Who you going to follow?
Who you going to follow?
Posted on 7/19/25 at 7:05 pm to Gus007
I cited that verse earlier in this thread.
Do you follow God's Word, or a man-made "tradition "?
The silence is deafening.
Do you follow God's Word, or a man-made "tradition "?
The silence is deafening.
Posted on 7/19/25 at 7:31 pm to N2cars
quote:or we can realize that most predators aren’t going to confession and this is just a slam on the church
The silence is deafening.
Most regular people don’t go to confession - so why would someone who knows they are committing a terrible sin go?
*source - I work for the church
Posted on 7/19/25 at 7:39 pm to Indefatigable
quote:
Louisiana had an interesting case 15 or so years back or so where the court ordered a priest to reveal something related to a sex abuse case that was told in confession--basically a choice between excommunication or a contempt charge.
I think it was overruled before the priest had to make the choice though.
This was in my parish. The priest is bound by his vows and that has been upheld in the SC. Child abuse makes it sound awful but many a person has confessed murder to a priest in confession.
In this particular case the priest counselled the child who was a teenager to report this to the authorities multiple and the child did not. A few yrs later the child tried to sue the priest/church for not reporting it to police. This info only came out because the plaintif told it to the media. Even after the confessor told the story the priest was still bound to confidentiality.
This post was edited on 7/19/25 at 7:42 pm
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