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re: Can you teach a child morality without religion?
Posted on 10/31/18 at 1:57 pm to LandPhil
Posted on 10/31/18 at 1:57 pm to LandPhil
Here’s a better question:
The common teaching is that if you believe in Jesus you will have eternal life. Good acts alone do not give you the keys to heaven.
Does Jesus really prefer someone who believes in him but lives a terribly unethical life? Or would he prefer someone who does not believe in him but lives an ethical, charitable life?
The common teaching is that if you believe in Jesus you will have eternal life. Good acts alone do not give you the keys to heaven.
Does Jesus really prefer someone who believes in him but lives a terribly unethical life? Or would he prefer someone who does not believe in him but lives an ethical, charitable life?
1
Posted on 10/31/18 at 1:58 pm to colorchangintiger
quote:
Sure it's prehistory, but saying it's unknowable is like saying we can't know if man's control of fire or cooked food came first. It's common sense.
Show me how (where?) it has been determined that "basic morals" (not animal morals, those of CIVILIZED MAN) predate religious thought. Hell, show me where it has been determined that the civilization of man does so.
Posted on 10/31/18 at 1:58 pm to LandPhil
yes and no.
You can teach morality for the extremes or "black and white" issues like murder and fidelity.
Where Christianity helps is in the "gray" areas of life. I.E. selling a car to an uneducated person at an 18% interest rate and telling yourself that it is not your fault that he is stupid for agreeing to those terms.
Before you say, that most Christians don't act any different...I will agree with you. But that does not make the teaching incorrect. They are just hypocritical and worse than the people who don't even proclaim to know Jesus.
You can teach morality for the extremes or "black and white" issues like murder and fidelity.
Where Christianity helps is in the "gray" areas of life. I.E. selling a car to an uneducated person at an 18% interest rate and telling yourself that it is not your fault that he is stupid for agreeing to those terms.
Before you say, that most Christians don't act any different...I will agree with you. But that does not make the teaching incorrect. They are just hypocritical and worse than the people who don't even proclaim to know Jesus.
Posted on 10/31/18 at 1:59 pm to LandPhil
nm
This post was edited on 5/21/20 at 2:30 pm
Posted on 10/31/18 at 2:00 pm to WikiTiger
Somebody understands things much more than those who think their own atheism is some sort of grand new revelation.
Posted on 10/31/18 at 2:01 pm to LandPhil
How do you define religion? At a minimum, a parent who teaches morality is acting like there is some meaning in life. They implicitly acknowledge that there is a hierarchy of values.
The parent who teaches “morality” but who is “not religious” is simply remaining ignorant and unquestioning on the question of where does that hierarchy of values exist, or to put another way, where does it come from.
Once you start to actually get into the business of understanding morality and teaching it to others, you start to realize how complicated it can be, and how flawed and self-deluded humans can be.
You start to question your own moral failings and wonder why it’s so hard to remain true to your morality. That’s the start of an exploration for moral clarity. That’s the start of religion.
The parent who teaches “morality” but who is “not religious” is simply remaining ignorant and unquestioning on the question of where does that hierarchy of values exist, or to put another way, where does it come from.
Once you start to actually get into the business of understanding morality and teaching it to others, you start to realize how complicated it can be, and how flawed and self-deluded humans can be.
You start to question your own moral failings and wonder why it’s so hard to remain true to your morality. That’s the start of an exploration for moral clarity. That’s the start of religion.
Posted on 10/31/18 at 2:02 pm to Y.A. Tittle
quote:
Show me how (where?) it has been determined that "basic morals" (not animal morals, those of CIVILIZED MAN) predate religious thought.
Well this argument is going to be hard to make if you don't believe that man created religion
But if man created religion in order to set societal structure and morality, then it is a rather obvious conclusion, no?
Posted on 10/31/18 at 2:03 pm to Y.A. Tittle
quote:
Somebody understands things much more than those who think their own atheism is some sort of grand new revelation.
who, exactly, are you referring to here?
because if you agree with Wiki then you agree with mine and the other posters comments towards your post
This post was edited on 10/31/18 at 2:05 pm
Posted on 10/31/18 at 2:04 pm to Salmon
I would suggest "create" is a tricky term in this context. And I don't even mean that as an argument for any particular truth of religion.
Posted on 10/31/18 at 2:05 pm to LandPhil
I think its difficult because usually the child is taught morality relative to the person who is teaching them and not an agreed upon or practiced sense of morality.
You also can't explain why your sense of morality is better or why certain behaviors arent justified, especially to a child at a young age. So does the child just have no understanding until they're capable of understanding your explanation? Who says your explanation is good and appropriate?
Eta: exactly what wiki said.
Religion is more easily understood by lower intelligence individuals which includes children. It easily motivates them to perform right behaviors and fear consequences of the bad behaviors.
You also can't explain why your sense of morality is better or why certain behaviors arent justified, especially to a child at a young age. So does the child just have no understanding until they're capable of understanding your explanation? Who says your explanation is good and appropriate?
Eta: exactly what wiki said.
Religion is more easily understood by lower intelligence individuals which includes children. It easily motivates them to perform right behaviors and fear consequences of the bad behaviors.
This post was edited on 10/31/18 at 2:09 pm
Posted on 10/31/18 at 2:05 pm to Salmon
quote:
because if you agree with Wiki then you agree with mine and the other posters comments towards your post
I don't know what you're getting at.
Posted on 10/31/18 at 2:06 pm to SECdragonmaster
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This post was edited on 5/21/20 at 2:30 pm
Posted on 10/31/18 at 2:06 pm to Y.A. Tittle
quote:
I don't know what you're getting at.
maybe I read your comment wrong
but I took it as a passive aggressive shot at me and the other poster
Posted on 10/31/18 at 2:07 pm to celltech1981
quote:And invite the Easter Bunny into your house and chocolate eggs are yours.
Just invite jesus in to your heart as your personal lord and savior and salvation is yours.
Posted on 10/31/18 at 2:09 pm to Salmon
quote:
but I took it as a passive aggressive shot at me and the other poster
No, just a shot at a particular mindset. I don't presume to know what yours is, or if it's the one I was taking a shot at. I would hope it wasn't, as I usually see you as more thoughtful than what I was getting at. Maybe not, though.
Posted on 10/31/18 at 2:11 pm to Jon Ham
quote:
Does Jesus really prefer someone who believes in him but lives a terribly unethical life? Or would he prefer someone who does not believe in him but lives an ethical, charitable life?
That’s not really how it works. Yes, faith alone saves you. But God is all-knowing. If you go around murdering people, all the while telling yourself you believe in God, he can see through that to know it wasn’t real faith. Because if it was, you would repent for your sins and try to stop murdering people.(or not even start in the first place)
Posted on 10/31/18 at 2:11 pm to WikiTiger
quote:
Religion is a civilizing force. It may not be true in the literal sense, but it certainly seems necessary.
I agree. Humans crave structure and guidance. We do from the moment we are born. Infants behave better when they are on a very structured schedule. Remove that structure and they go nuts.
Religion provides this structure for society.
On an individual level, we may deny religion, but we will all find some guidance or structure in which we live our lives in its absence.
Posted on 10/31/18 at 2:14 pm to Y.A. Tittle
quote:
No, just a shot at a particular mindset.
Gotcha
Posted on 10/31/18 at 2:15 pm to WikiTiger
Religion is only one tool. Right now, people crave either religion or government to control their lives. Someday we may move past such primitive thinking and realize something much more useful can replace such nonsense.
This post was edited on 10/31/18 at 2:42 pm
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