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re: Battery power will NEVER do what Hydrogen can
Posted on 6/5/21 at 1:06 pm to Mike da Tigah
Posted on 6/5/21 at 1:06 pm to Mike da Tigah
quote:If you're using hydrogen fuel cells then you're driving electric motors anyway. It's a more complex and roundabout way to do the same thing that batteries do.
I’ll never understand why this hasn’t been the main push over electric
quote:Is it though? It's not very efficient well-to-wheel. It's hard to handle and store, requires a lot of infrastructure. I don't know anything about the quantity available as waste from other processes, but it doesn't sound easy or cheap to collect. And splitting it from water is an exercise in futility because you waste half the input energy in the two conversions.
especially considering how green it is.
0
Posted on 6/5/21 at 1:14 pm to antibarner
I know what else Hydrogen can do:
Posted on 6/5/21 at 1:15 pm to Bunk Moreland
quote:
We do not have a generation or two. In all likelihood, we have at most a few years.
That’s a clownish paper.
In fact, that is an editorial pretending to be a scientific paper.
This post was edited on 6/5/21 at 1:16 pm
Posted on 6/5/21 at 1:16 pm to Woodlands Tigah
Any where does the Hydrogen Station get it?
As of now, hydrogen in industrial quantities is a byproduct of oil refining, olefins and chlorine production.
In other words, hydrogen is a manufactured product. And if it takes more energy to produce via other means (e.g. electrolysis of water) than it produces as a fuel, then it's just a storage medium.
As opposed to a real fuel, which produces more energy than goes into its collection, refining and distribution.
As of now, hydrogen in industrial quantities is a byproduct of oil refining, olefins and chlorine production.
In other words, hydrogen is a manufactured product. And if it takes more energy to produce via other means (e.g. electrolysis of water) than it produces as a fuel, then it's just a storage medium.
As opposed to a real fuel, which produces more energy than goes into its collection, refining and distribution.
Posted on 6/5/21 at 1:22 pm to thejudge
quote:
Making chlorine from salt produces a shitload.
That is correct (although I'm not sure what unit a shitload is). Why all the downvotes?
Posted on 6/5/21 at 1:23 pm to antibarner
quote:
In a continuation of an earlier debate..hydrogen fuel cells can power large vehicles such as heavy trucks, trains and ships..and hydrogen can be used to power aircraft.
Articles written by non-scientifics...
Hydrogen is the cleanest fuel out there. However, being the simplest atom on the chart it has almost much loser energy value per pound than other fuels or in other words it would take the entire backend of your car to hold enough H2 under high pressure to be equivalent to a tank of gasoline. This was researched back in the 70 and 80's for H2 combustion engines.
Also just for the regular folks out there. I work in industry that generates byproduct hydrogen. It is the most flammable substance known to man and you often cannot see the flame which makes it very hazardous to handle. UV light can set it off.
Posted on 6/5/21 at 1:31 pm to GetmorewithLes
quote:Yeah I definitely want the people who put gasoline in milk jugs driving around with and handling hydrogen.
It is the most flammable substance known to man and you often cannot see the flame which makes it very hazardous to handle. UV light can set it off.
Posted on 6/5/21 at 1:34 pm to GetmorewithLes
LINK
quote:
Companies and industry groups often join together to promote their products. Far more unusual was the step taken last month by 10 major European energy companies and two of the continent's top renewable industry bodies, which joined up to launch a campaign touting a product that none of them actually sell.
That product is renewable or "green" hydrogen. And while it's not a central concern today for those companies (Enel, EDP, BayWa and others) or industry groups (SolarPower Europe and WindEurope), all see green hydrogen playing a vital role in achieving deep decarbonization of the energy system.
Posted on 6/5/21 at 1:40 pm to antibarner
Well, shouldn't we ask a marine what she prefers?
Posted on 6/5/21 at 1:42 pm to antibarner
quote:
In a continuation of an earlier debate..hydrogen fuel cells can power large vehicles such as heavy trucks, trains and ships..and hydrogen can be used to power aircraft.
Saw a great video, will see if I can find it, as to why batteries are better for small cars and light duty trucks, but after that you need to move to hydrogen fuel cells. The fact that tanker ships are beginning to get outfitted with hydrogen fuel cells and there are planes in development, this will be the fuel of the future.
Of course it requires either an additional energy source to separate the H atom from water, or it has to come from methane.
Updating with link:
The case for hydrogen
This post was edited on 6/5/21 at 1:46 pm
Posted on 6/5/21 at 1:52 pm to Korkstand
quote:
Yeah I definitely want the people who put gasoline in milk jugs driving around with and handling hydrogen.
This is how we prevent a real life idiocracy.
Posted on 6/5/21 at 1:54 pm to antibarner
quote:That is a big word ... even in caps.
NEVER
Posted on 6/5/21 at 1:55 pm to antibarner
quote:
Hydrogen
Posted on 6/5/21 at 1:58 pm to Unobtanium
quote:
Why all the downvotes?
I don't know.
Perhaps they are retarded?
Posted on 6/5/21 at 1:58 pm to TigerV
I've seen this video, and Matt Ferrell comes across as factual and not pushing any particular agenda.
This statement in your post:
only proves my point that hydrogen is an energy storage medium (as opposed to a traditional fuel).
Now if you want to take all of the wind turbines and solar panel farms currently connected to the power grid and use that intermittent energy to electrolyze water to make hydrogen, I'd be all for that (making hay while the sun shines so to speak).
This statement in your post:
quote:
requires either an additional energy source to separate the H atom from water
only proves my point that hydrogen is an energy storage medium (as opposed to a traditional fuel).
Now if you want to take all of the wind turbines and solar panel farms currently connected to the power grid and use that intermittent energy to electrolyze water to make hydrogen, I'd be all for that (making hay while the sun shines so to speak).
This post was edited on 6/5/21 at 2:08 pm
Posted on 6/5/21 at 2:00 pm to thejudge
Retard posters on the OT?
That would NEVER happen
That would NEVER happen
Posted on 6/5/21 at 2:05 pm to antibarner
The problem with hydrogen is that it's a nightmare to store and you'd still need to pressurize the frick out of it or liquify it by refrigeration to get enough fuel in the cells.
Conceptually hydrogen gas everything you'd want in an alt fuel but there are some real practical hurdles to any sort of widespread adoption.
Conceptually hydrogen gas everything you'd want in an alt fuel but there are some real practical hurdles to any sort of widespread adoption.
Posted on 6/5/21 at 2:06 pm to thejudge
quote:
Making chlorine from salt produces a shitload
There are also processes in refining that produce Hydrogen.
SMR= Steam Methane Reformer. Takes refinery fuel gas, heats it in a furnace, sends it through shift converters,and a swing absorber. The carbon-hydrogen bonds are broken and the carbon is scrubbed out.
Another I've seen takes Resid and or fuel oil, sends it to a reactor where it's mixed with oxygen and burned at around 2800 deg. The process is an incomplete burn that separates the Hydrogen-Carbon bonds. The excess carbon is captured in a water separator and pressed out to create a carbon waste. The hydrogen and CO/CO2 gasses are sent to shift converters and scrubbed. The end result is Hydrogen.
Posted on 6/5/21 at 2:07 pm to antibarner
(no message)
This post was edited on 11/4/22 at 10:52 pm
Posted on 6/5/21 at 2:07 pm to antibarner
Hydrogen fuel cell generators (for backup power and microgrids) sound pretty cool but I really don't know how efficient it is.
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