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Started By
Message
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Posted on 7/24/20 at 7:49 am to Friedbrie
I support the taking down of statues of people who fought for, or served in, the confederacy for the same reason I support the taking down of Nazi statues - they fought for an evil ideology. I don't think these were bad people, but I don't think they are worthy of commemoration when it deeply offends the people who would still be slaves if these folks had won.
The people we should be commemorating are those who moved civilization, often in small steps, towards the light of individual rights, democracy and equal treatment under the law for all adults. People like Robert Fitz Walter, Lafayette, Ben Franklin, Thomas Jefferson, James Madison, Alexander Hamilton, John Adams, George Washington, Gandhi, Lincoln, Martin Luther King, Emmeline Pankhurst, Susan B Anthony and Al Sharpton.
Nah, just kidding about Al. I wanted to know who read all the way to the end.
The two biggest arguments I encounter against the removing of Confederate staues is "You are erasing history" and "It was about states' rights, not slavery". These are both absurd arguments. The Civil War was about slavery. States' rights was the weapon to defend slavery. Southern states had no reason to be more in favor of states' rights than northern states, except for slavery. And when we tear down a statue we are not erasing history. The famous tearing down of Saddam Hussein's statue was applauded by the same folks who are making the argument against tearing down confederate statues. Saddam Hussein once ruled Iraq; that did not get forgotten when his statue was torn down, and neither will the Civil War.
The people we should be commemorating are those who moved civilization, often in small steps, towards the light of individual rights, democracy and equal treatment under the law for all adults. People like Robert Fitz Walter, Lafayette, Ben Franklin, Thomas Jefferson, James Madison, Alexander Hamilton, John Adams, George Washington, Gandhi, Lincoln, Martin Luther King, Emmeline Pankhurst, Susan B Anthony and Al Sharpton.
Nah, just kidding about Al. I wanted to know who read all the way to the end.
The two biggest arguments I encounter against the removing of Confederate staues is "You are erasing history" and "It was about states' rights, not slavery". These are both absurd arguments. The Civil War was about slavery. States' rights was the weapon to defend slavery. Southern states had no reason to be more in favor of states' rights than northern states, except for slavery. And when we tear down a statue we are not erasing history. The famous tearing down of Saddam Hussein's statue was applauded by the same folks who are making the argument against tearing down confederate statues. Saddam Hussein once ruled Iraq; that did not get forgotten when his statue was torn down, and neither will the Civil War.
Posted on 7/24/20 at 7:51 am to The Mick
quote:
Louis Armstrong was a drug addict, cheater, and wife-beater. Gets airport named after him.
True.
Joan of Arc is a racist symbol of violence and colonialism. It's time to take down her statue.
Posted on 7/24/20 at 7:51 am to DeafJam73
quote:
You think because I’m okay with the removal, and I mean legal removal, of very specific statues that I’m immediately affiliated with a certain group. That is false.
It’s not false. You’ve chosen your side. You’re just trying to convince yourself that you’ve chosen based on some principled stance, when in reality, you’ve done so because you’re a coward.
Posted on 7/24/20 at 7:53 am to DeafJam73
That’s probably the smartest thing I’ve read on this board.
Posted on 7/24/20 at 7:53 am to slackster
quote:
slackster
Nice gif. As vapid as your stance on this issue.
Posted on 7/24/20 at 7:53 am to Mo Jeaux
You’re making blanket statements because I said one thing that ruffled your feathers. I think you just like the smell of your own arse.Posted on 7/24/20 at 7:53 am to Penrod
quote:
Lafayette, Ben Franklin, Thomas Jefferson, James Madison, Alexander Hamilton, John Adams, George Washington,
These people fought to preserve slavery and to avoid paying their taxes. How is that not evil as well?
Posted on 7/24/20 at 7:54 am to JEAUXBLEAUX
My question is why do you care?
Could you name a place where one statue stands or stood?
Could you name a place where one statue stands or stood?
Posted on 7/24/20 at 7:54 am to upgrayedd
quote:
The people burning and looting in St. Louis had charges dismissed while the couple defending private property were charged with felonies.
Disgusting. Some heads need to roll for this.
Posted on 7/24/20 at 7:58 am to QJenk
quote:
I support people's right to peacefully protest. That means if I agree with what they are protesting or if I disagree.
I don't mind cities putting things to a vote and letting citizens of the area decide if they should remove a statue or not. That is the way things should be done, but unfortunately it is not done that way.
While I'm not passionate enough about it to protest over, I do think it's stupid to celebrate people who are simply not worth celebrating.
^This right here
One way people "vote" is by peacefully protesting and the city council deciding to have those statues removed. You voted to have that council put it place and they can make that decision.
Posted on 7/24/20 at 7:59 am to DeafJam73
quote:
Because the fact of matter is they lead an armed rebellion against the US
Wrong. The CSA never intended to overthrow the USA. That is a fact. They simply wanted to leave the union.
I guess you think the EU should invade Great Britain?
Posted on 7/24/20 at 7:59 am to Friedbrie
Well, I don’t really give a shite about statues either way
So if someone cares enough to get out of bed at night, risk arrest and jail time, climb up a pedestal, pull a huge fricking statue down, and drag it into the river, then they obviously care more than I do.
Not gonna pretend like I care more after the fact
So if someone cares enough to get out of bed at night, risk arrest and jail time, climb up a pedestal, pull a huge fricking statue down, and drag it into the river, then they obviously care more than I do.
Not gonna pretend like I care more after the fact
Posted on 7/24/20 at 8:01 am to NawlinsTiger9
quote:
Well, I don’t really give a shite about statues either way
So if someone cares enough to get out of bed at night, risk arrest and jail time, climb up a pedestal, pull a huge fricking statue down, and drag it into the river, then they obviously care more than I do.
As long as you have your PornHub and cheap carbs, all is well, right? I bet you can’t wait for sportsball to start up again! Fantasy football Night out with the guys!
Posted on 7/24/20 at 8:01 am to Friedbrie
quote:
Anyone who supports these protesters and taking down statues
What I find ironic is the same people who support all this for some reason give a pass to the Democrat Party. How can you in one hand say all symbols of slavery and racial oppression must be wiped away but on the other hand support the Democrat Party?
Posted on 7/24/20 at 8:13 am to upgrayedd
quote:
These people fought to preserve slavery and to avoid paying their taxes. How is that not evil as well?
Not true. These people fought against taxation WITHOUT REPRESENTATION. They would have been fine being part of Britain if they were given a voice and vote.
Slavery was a fact of life virtually everywhere in the world. Fighting against slavery was hopeless at that point. Many of those people wrote passionately against slavery. But politics is the art of the possible. No one would have ever heard of George Washington if he had fought against slavery. Good people will push the envelope as far as is practicable. These people pushed breathtakingly far, and succeeded!
For examples, Martin Luther King fought admirably for civil rights, but he did not fight for the rights of itinerant workers; Susan B Anthony fought for women's rights, but not for civil rights for black Americans. Were they evil?
Posted on 7/24/20 at 8:14 am to Darth_Vader
quote:
What I find ironic is the same people who support all this for some reason give a pass to the Democrat Party. How can you in one hand say all symbols of slavery and racial oppression must be wiped away but on the other hand support the Democrat Party?
Agreed. But I would bet most voters don’t know much about the Democratic party before 2000. They see a party making promises they like and fall on the sword willingly.
Posted on 7/24/20 at 8:14 am to DeafJam73
Understood. My question is where do you logically go with that? Where does it stop? What is enough? Everyone who identifies as being 'offended' by something ……? These things are symbolic of our history as a Nation, seems to me the Marxist playbook (erase the past and start over today) is near the center of all of this faux outrage. Semper Fi to the good things in life, virtue, kindness, understanding, tolerance, learning, discerning, and so on. Not destruction and lawlessness.
Posted on 7/24/20 at 8:16 am to The Mick
I’ve only ever seen that he loved weed and cheated.
But if you can find anything about Louis Armstrong inslaving the local populace and parading around severed heads let me know.
But if you can find anything about Louis Armstrong inslaving the local populace and parading around severed heads let me know.
This post was edited on 7/24/20 at 8:21 am
Posted on 7/24/20 at 8:18 am to Penrod
quote:
Not true. These people fought against taxation WITHOUT REPRESENTATION. They would have been fine being part of Britain if they were given a voice and vote.
Slavery was a fact of life virtually everywhere in the world. Fighting against slavery was hopeless at that point. Many of those people wrote passionately against slavery. But politics is the art of the possible. No one would have ever heard of George Washington if he had fought against slavery.
Doesn't sound like he had any guts to do what was right. He could've freed his own slaves but he didn't. Why should he be glorified?
quote:
For examples, Martin Luther King fought admirably for civil rights, but he did not fight for the rights of itinerant workers; Susan B Anthony fought for women's rights, but not for civil rights for black Americans. Were they evil?
Yes. They should have all their likenesses destroyed. It won't change history, though.
This post was edited on 7/24/20 at 8:23 am
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