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Message
re: Alton Sterling shooting - discussion thread
Posted on 7/6/16 at 4:34 pm to shel311
Posted on 7/6/16 at 4:34 pm to shel311
quote:
We can argue protocol or right/wrong, but I don't even think it's up for debate that what they did put themselves more in harm's way than other options. Not sure how to debate that otherwise.
Perhaps they were wanting to defuse the situation without getting in a shoot out with this dude. You know so innocent bystanders don't get caught in the crossfire.
1
Posted on 7/6/16 at 4:34 pm to slackster
quote:
Would you recommend tackling him to the ground in that situation with only two officers present
Yes, I believe I would have
Posted on 7/6/16 at 4:34 pm to RB10
edit: never mind already posted.
This post was edited on 7/6/16 at 4:35 pm
Posted on 7/6/16 at 4:35 pm to FelicianaTigerfan
Posted on 7/6/16 at 4:35 pm to tigers win2
Posted on 7/6/16 at 4:35 pm to shel311
you are correct. It looked like a small hand gun but nonetheless a gun.
Posted on 7/6/16 at 4:35 pm to BluegrassBelle
quote:
slackster has offered up the cops pulling their weapons on the guy after he was tased and still didn't comply to them. IMO that leaves you open to get shot with a quickness
Why though? He didn't pull out his weapon when they pulled out the Taser. He didn't pull out his weapon as they were standing there. If you pull out your gun and he does as well, you shoot him. If you pull out your gun and tell him not to make any sudden movements towards his waist, and he does, you shoot him.
I mean the course of action they took still resulted in the man's death, and at a minimum seems to put the officers in harms way more than staying at a distance would have done.
Posted on 7/6/16 at 4:35 pm to slackster
quote:
Not knowing what the protocol is, I would have drawn my weapon and awaited back up. If I'm not certain I can handle him, I'm not trying to be a hero. He isn't threatening me. He isn't brandishing a weapon at this point. He isn't even moving to be honest. Pull out your weapon from a distance and wait until you have the manpower to apprehend him more efficiently. If he goes into his pocket you shoot him, just as they did on the ground.
You have no idea what you would do and it's becoming clear you have very little clue in general.
Posted on 7/6/16 at 4:35 pm to crkelly91
Funny how fast the money spent on community relations became waste.
The inner city faces on evening news is always complaining about crime when something happens to them. Then LEO actually has to do something like this and the rush to judgement is amazing.
Where are those inner city faces when cops do something noticeable to clean up the community?
Yeah, the cops may have been wrong but the community knows this dead guy's record and should let the investigation take it's course .... but, no, they will protect their own and the cops will back off.
What happens next? The inner city continues to tank. Will they ever learn?
Posted on 7/6/16 at 4:36 pm to slackster
quote:
Not knowing what the protocol is, I would have drawn my weapon and awaited back up. If I'm not certain I can handle him, I'm not trying to be a hero. He isn't threatening me. He isn't brandishing a weapon at this point. He isn't even moving to be honest. Pull out your weapon from a distance and wait until you have the manpower to apprehend him more efficiently. If he goes into his pocket you shoot him, just as they did on the ground.
So a standoff with a volatile (he threatened others with the gun beforehand and pretty clearly resisted being tased multiple times) gunmen who at any moment could reach in his pocket and start shooting. In most cases haphazardly, with people in close enough range they could record it pretty clearly on their phone from a car nearby.
Posted on 7/6/16 at 4:36 pm to EvrybodysAllAmerican
quote:Wait for backup?
You draw a gun and tell him to get on the ground, he still doesnt. then what?
You're in a pretty good position if you have 2 guns drawn and his gun is in his pocket, much safer than the one they ended up in, I'm sure you'd agree.
Again, like Slackster said, I don't know the protocols, they could have done it 100% by the book, but I don't think we can argue that what they did put themselves in much more danger.
Posted on 7/6/16 at 4:37 pm to AwesomeSauce
Thanks.
Neither cam view really shows much detail (Quality of the camera). You can clearly hear a cop yell "Gun". My question is, what exactly was he doing at the gas station again? Was this a dude trying to rob the place or is it a different situation?
Neither cam view really shows much detail (Quality of the camera). You can clearly hear a cop yell "Gun". My question is, what exactly was he doing at the gas station again? Was this a dude trying to rob the place or is it a different situation?
Posted on 7/6/16 at 4:37 pm to shel311
quote:
I don't even think it's up for debate that what they did put themselves more in harm's way than other options. Not sure how to debate that otherwise.
It most certainly is up for debate. If they draw their weapons and he is able to draw his before they can fire, one of the officers' is now in immediate danger.
This post was edited on 7/6/16 at 4:39 pm
Posted on 7/6/16 at 4:38 pm to slackster
quote:
slackster
I wish you knew even just a little bit about law enforcement. You would be editing everything you have written in this thread.
So much fail!!!
Posted on 7/6/16 at 4:38 pm to BluegrassBelle
quote:
slackster has offered up the cops pulling their weapons on the guy after he was tased and still didn't comply to them. IMO that leaves you open to get shot with a quickness
If you have a gun drawn on a guy at a safe distance, you're most certainly in a safer position than trying to tackle the guy.
That's really not even up for a debate IMO.
Posted on 7/6/16 at 4:38 pm to OneMoreTime
Has anyone posted his rap sheet? Including the drug possession from 2 weeks ago? Maybe peaceful surrender wasn't on his mind. Maybe, he had ingested some of the drugs he was arrested for possessing 2 weeks ago? Whether it is determined to be justified force or not, why does the press act like the cops were dealing with an innocent choir boy? If his life was so important to ALL those people, many who claimed to be family and friends at that press conference, why didn't they get him help during the nearly two decades of crime, including the SEVENTEEN arrests he had already been through? If one uses simple arithmetic, it could have easily been more if he hadn't been locked up part of that time.
Posted on 7/6/16 at 4:39 pm to shel311
quote:
Again, like Slackster said, I don't know the protocols, they could have done it 100% by the book, but I don't think we can argue that what they did put themselves in much more danger.
I'd argue allowing him to stay standing, unrestrained after tasing him twice and knowing he has a gun on him and threatened people with that gun (which resulted in the police call to begin with) puts all of those people whose videos are showing up in a great deal of danger.
Posted on 7/6/16 at 4:40 pm to shel311
quote:
If you have a gun drawn on a guy at a safe distance, you're most certainly in a safer position than trying to tackle the guy
Again, you're assuming the suspect is unable to draw a weapon before a shot is fired.
That's not the case all the time.
Posted on 7/6/16 at 4:40 pm to slackster
quote:
Why though? He didn't pull out his weapon when they pulled out the Taser. He didn't pull out his weapon as they were standing there. If you pull out your gun and he does as well, you shoot him. If you pull out your gun and tell him not to make any sudden movements towards his waist, and he does, you shoot him.
I mean the course of action they took still resulted in the man's death, and at a minimum seems to put the officers in harms way more than staying at a distance would have done.
You're asking the officers to put themselves in more danger to protect this thug. No thanks. Sorry it ended this way, but its his own fault.
Posted on 7/6/16 at 4:41 pm to BOSCEAUX
quote:Kinda like what actually happened?
Perhaps they were wanting to defuse the situation without getting in a shoot out with this dude. You know so innocent bystanders don't get caught in the crossfire.
Look, I feel for the officers, I'd never want to be in that situation. And once they tackled the guy, the events that unfolded certainly seemed to be unavoidable on their end, they did what they had to do.
I do think it's a fair question to ask whether trying to tackle the guy was the safest call. That's all. Not even saying it's the correct decision/protocol, just saying at this point it seems like a fair question to ponder. Nothing more/nothing less.
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