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re: Alton Sterling shooting - discussion thread
Posted on 7/6/16 at 2:24 pm to stevengtiger
Posted on 7/6/16 at 2:24 pm to stevengtiger
quote:
If you fear for your life, you can use lethal force as a civilian.
"Reasonable fear".
0
Posted on 7/6/16 at 2:24 pm to crkelly91
What if the person that called 911 was lying? BRPD took the video surveillance and the store owner said he was just joking with Sterling right before the cops came? Reports are saying that the call was anonymous. If the video shows that he was not waving a gun at anyone, what now?
Posted on 7/6/16 at 2:25 pm to RB10
quote:
So, you're saying these two officers tried to taser the guy, then tried to take him down by force, THEN lied about him reaching for a gun just so they could shoot him?
I've got no clue what Tangerine is trying to say, but I do believe their is a tendency for officers to be less risk averse than a civilian because they've got more legal protections if/when things go wrong. If you or I were trying to subdue him we'd probably make different decisions and be more risk averse than a pair of officers.
That may not be what happened here, but I do think that is a real issue.
Posted on 7/6/16 at 2:25 pm to bmy
quote:
You're delusional. I may get a lesser charge but I certainly wouldn't go to jail. Blows to the head are life threatening..
Telling me you can walk up to me, punch me, then kill me if I hit you and claim self defense for it is the only thing delusional here.
You would go to prison.
Posted on 7/6/16 at 2:26 pm to Commandeaux
quote:
What if the person that called 911 was lying? BRPD took the video surveillance and the store owner said he was just joking with Sterling right before the cops came? Reports are saying that the call was anonymous. If the video shows that he was not waving a gun at anyone, what now?
comply with the officers request let him speak to you and search you and go on selling more cd's
Posted on 7/6/16 at 2:26 pm to LSUTANGERINE
quote:
And you show the film and ask the jurors.."and where does it look like he is actively reaching for his gun"?
You are just being disingenuous now. We all know the video, at least the one seen thus far, doesn't prove one way or the other. Which is the point of my earlier statement. If the Defense says, "my client saw him go for a gun" then the Prosecution has to PROVE that isn't true. That video doesn't prove anything on that point. Frankly, it leans toward saying he was going for a gun only because he was definitely moving as opposed to laying still but that is neither here nor there.
Regardless, if you weren't such a racist cop hater, you would concede that your earlier musings on the functioning of the criminal justice system were incorrect. But you just keep on trying to argue instead.
FWIW, your quote at the top would be the LAST thing a competent Prosecutor would say. Because it would only take one juror to say "right there, he is actively reaching for a gun" even if the video absolutely 100% didn't show that and your case is over. You never ask a jury to reach their own ambiguous conclusion. You shove incontrovertible facts in their face (very, very basic ones at that) and instruct them on what conclusion they should reach.
Posted on 7/6/16 at 2:27 pm to slackster
quote:
So the dispatch call said he had a gun in his pocket. I'm still at a loss for an explanation on why the decided to tackle him and effectively eliminate any room for error while struggling on the ground with a gun in his pocket. If you're going to make that move I think you need to be 100% sure it will work, or as close to it as possible.
I would say thats normal for a non compliant individual.. If you can subdue them then they cant just reach for the gun and immediately have a gun battle.. Since he wasnt reaching the instinct must've kicked in to attempt that move.
Posted on 7/6/16 at 2:28 pm to TROLA
Yall think they gonna riot tonight?
Posted on 7/6/16 at 2:28 pm to slackster
quote:
but that seems to be a better option than taking him to the ground while he is armed and you're not confident you can handle him.
Again, what happened before the struggle will come out soon enough.
Maybe the cops approached him and asked him questions, or maybe they asked to see his hands?
They might have been questioning him and he attempted to flee if they tried to OT him down, necessitating grabbing him by hand rather than drawing weapons.
We will find out soon enough.
Posted on 7/6/16 at 2:28 pm to slackster
quote:
I've got no clue what Tangerine is trying to say
He's trying to spin it in the direction of "cops kill just to kill".
That's obvious.
quote:
I do believe their is a tendency for officers to be less risk averse than a civilian because they've got more legal protections if/when things go wrong. If you or I were trying to subdue him we'd probably make different decisions and be more risk averse than a pair of officers.
I agree 100%. Which is why I commend the officers for attempting to take him down without deadly force first. Which, coincidentally, you're arguing against.
Posted on 7/6/16 at 2:28 pm to 91TIGER
quote:
Yes we had some of the first ones rolled out for usage. Most are not secured like a GoPro on a helmet cam. when you run you can barely see the footage b/c of all the movement.
Awesome. No wonder it fell off then. Leave it to the government to be at below consumer grade. Probably paid top dollar for "enterprise" support, too.
Posted on 7/6/16 at 2:29 pm to slackster
quote:
Pulling your weapon at that point and giving him orders while waiting for back up seems like a better option, even without the benefit of hindsight.
And if he goes for his weapon while you wait on backup, your backup might as well be the coroner. If he did have a gun and reached for it, good shoot 100% of the time.
Posted on 7/6/16 at 2:31 pm to RB10
quote:
Telling me you can walk up to me, punch me, then kill me if I hit you and claim self defense for it is the only thing delusional here.
You would go to prison
If we got into an altercation that I started and you started to "beat my arse" (as you put it) I would have a strong legal defense for shooting and killing you. It would be iron clad if you tackled me and started to strike me in the head or neck region.
You'd be dead and I'd be injured but a free man. Even though its shitty.
This post was edited on 7/6/16 at 2:32 pm
Posted on 7/6/16 at 2:31 pm to LSUTANGERINE
I understand why people are so upset at this situation, but why is the black community so fricking hypocritical? Why not riot over every killing? Cops aren't out there hoping and wishing to kill black people, or anyone else for that matter. However, my time in the streets, I can't say the same for certain people I was around. I've lost numerous black friends being murdered, not at the hands of cops, but at the hands of people of their own race. Two of them even grew up with the guys that killed them.
Until they start treating EVERY murder like this, nothing will change and we all know this.
They'll have a few "community leaders" and politicians out there hoping to get re-elected, but what are they going to do when, in the next week, if a black kills another black? These police killings are hardly a fraction of their problems, yet that's what we'll hear over the next couple of months as being the reason for all their problems.
I'm not trying to take away from what happened to Alton, but I didn't want to start another thread for my thoughts and questions so I lumped it in here.
PS - I only replied to you tang bc you were last post when I opened.
Until they start treating EVERY murder like this, nothing will change and we all know this.
They'll have a few "community leaders" and politicians out there hoping to get re-elected, but what are they going to do when, in the next week, if a black kills another black? These police killings are hardly a fraction of their problems, yet that's what we'll hear over the next couple of months as being the reason for all their problems.
I'm not trying to take away from what happened to Alton, but I didn't want to start another thread for my thoughts and questions so I lumped it in here.
PS - I only replied to you tang bc you were last post when I opened.
Posted on 7/6/16 at 2:32 pm to logjamming
quote:
We will find out soon enough.
I hope so, but have you seen the video?
quote:
They might have been questioning him and he attempted to flee if they tried to OT him down, necessitating grabbing him by hand rather than drawing weapons.
He was either being tased or recently tased and was standing in front of a car next to his table where he presumably sold the CDs. If he had tried to flee, they presumably had him back where the situation started. So far the decision to turn it into a physical altercation seems to reside with the officers based on what we know at this point and what we can see in the video. Like you said, hopefully there is more that comes out to clear things up.
Posted on 7/6/16 at 2:32 pm to slackster
quote:
If you or I were trying to subdue him we'd probably make different decisions and be more risk averse than a pair of officers
And there is a better chance you or I would be dead if he indeed had a gun.
Posted on 7/6/16 at 2:33 pm to T
It looks like his life was on track until 2006. And then something went horribly wrong:
quote:
•9/09/96 Eagle Scout merit badge awarded
•10/31/97 Engineered merger between UNICEF and Smith and Wesson
•1/06/98 Wrote peace agreement between IRA and Irish and UK governments.
•5/04/00 Breast fed a wounded flamingo back to health.
•9/20/00 Taught the world to sing in perfect harmony
•9/04/01 Cured cancer.
•5/24/05 Somehow managed to get Joanie and Chachi back together.
•7/11/05 Engineered lasting peace between Palestinians and Israel.
•9/12/05 Won an Oscar for the score of Brokeback Mountain.
•3/17/06 Taught Mike Tyson the peaceful art of Haiku.
•4/12/06 aggravated battery, simple criminal damage to property, disturbing the peace, unauthorized entry
•4/04/08 domestic abuse battery
•6/03/09 resisting an officer, drug possession, receiving stolen things, possession of stolen firearm, illegal carrying of a weapon with CDs, sound reproduct without consent
•10/12/09 illegal carrying of weapon, marijuana possession
•8/13/15 failure to register as a sex offender
•4/08/16 failure to register as a sex offender
•6/14/16 ecstacy and marijuana possession
7/4/2016 Gots smok'd by racist po-po while sitting peaceful yo outside the swapmeet.
Posted on 7/6/16 at 2:33 pm to bayouvette
quote:
comply with the officers request let him speak to you and search you and go on selling more cd's
Get the frick out of here with that logical bullshite. No one wants it! We want justice and violence!
Posted on 7/6/16 at 2:33 pm to LSUTigersVCURams
quote:
Yall think they gonna riot tonight?
Nah.
Posted on 7/6/16 at 2:35 pm to Commandeaux
quote:
If the video shows that he was not waving a gun at anyone, what now?
He still resisted arrest and was a felon in possession of a firearm.
What if you had a dick growing out of your forehead?
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