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re: 75 years ago right now....The city of Hiroshima disappeared from the face of the earth....

Posted on 8/6/20 at 9:37 am to
Posted by SouthEndzoneTiger
Louisiana
Member since Mar 2008
10595 posts
Posted on 8/6/20 at 9:37 am to
quote:

I never got a real explanation of why he was there, he was also at the Bikini Atoll bomb tests “Operation Crossroads”. He was in the Navy at the time, and had a lot of technical training. I suspect he was involved in measuring and recording the effects of the bombs. It was likely all Top Secret stuff, and he was of the generation that unless told otherwise the secrets were carried to the grave. I only discovered he was at Operation Crossroads after he passed away, and found some of his Navy records.


My grandfather didn't talk about his experiences in WWII that much either. Although the "secrets" they were supposed to keep became public only a few years after, he never really told us about any of it until late in life. I've learned more online than from him. And it's not like it was actual top secret stuff, I believe it was the US being embarrassed more than anything. My grandfather was one of the 819 survivors on the HMT Rohna.

quote:

HMT Rohna was a British India Steam Navigation Company passenger and cargo liner that was built on Tyneside in 1926 as SS Rohna and requisitioned as a troop ship in 1940. ("HMT" stands for His Majesty's Transport.) Rohna was sunk in the Mediterranean in November 1943 by a Henschel Hs 293 guided glide bomb launched by a Luftwaffe aircraft. More than 1,100 people were killed, most of whom were US troops.

At 1230 hrs on 25 November 1943, Rohna and four other troop ships left Oran in French Algeria.[1] At sea three hours later they joined Convoy KMF 26 which was passing on its way from Britain to Alexandria.[3][9]

About 1630 hrs the next day off Bougie the convoy was attacked by 14 Luftwaffe Heinkel He 177A heavy bombers escorted by Junkers Ju 88 aircraft, followed by between six and nine torpedo bombers. At the time the convoy had a limited air escort of four land-based Free French Air Force Spitfires. Later in the course of the attack they were relieved by RAF Spitfires.[3]

Henschel Hs 293 radio-guided glide bomb
The He 177As carried Henschel Hs 293 radio-guided, rocket-boosted glide bombs, almost 30 of which they launched at the convoy. The convoy's combined anti-aircraft fire seems to have impeded most of the attackers' attempts to guide their glide bombs onto their targets. Rohna's DEMS gunners contributed with her machine guns, Oerlikon autocannons and about 20 rounds from her 12-pounder gun. The convoy shot down at least two aircraft and damaged several others.[3]

Rohna was the only casualty. About 1715 or 1725 hrs a He 177A piloted by Hans Dochtermann released a glide bomb that hit Rohna on her port side, at the after end of her engine room and Number Six troop deck. Men poured on deck, many of them badly wounded.[3]

Of the 1,138 men who were killed, 1,015 were US personnel. The attack is the largest loss of US troops at sea due to enemy action in a single incident. A further 35 US troops of the 2,000 originally embarked, later died from their wounds. As well as the troops, five of Rohna's officers and 117 of her 195 crew were killed, along with one of her 12 DEMS gunners and one hospital orderly. USS Pioneer rescued 606 survivors.[10]

Details of the loss were revealed slowly over time. By February 1944 the US Government had acknowledged that more than 1,000 soldiers had been lost in the sinking of an unnamed troopship in European waters, but it hinted that a submarine was responsible. By June 1945 the US Government had released accurate casualty figures, the ship had been identified as Rohna, and the cause of the sinking had been identified as German bombers, but did not mention that a guided bomb was used. The use of an "aerial glider bomb" was first reported publicly on 14 November 1945 in an account of the battle in the Salt Lake City Tribune. On 9 March 1947 the Chicago Tribune published a complete account of the attack, including the use of a "radio-controlled [sic] glider bomb." In 1948 a history of British India Line in the Second World War was published, stating "the missile was one of the new glider bombs guided by wireless".[11] The US Government officially released the remaining details of the incident, specifically that a radio-controlled glide bomb had been used, in 1967 after the passing of the Freedom of Information Act.


A couple of details he told us was that there was a group of guys below deck playing cards. Once the air raid started he went below to tell them to get moving, but they didn't listen. And that's where the guided missile hit. Also, when he swam up to one of the few, full life boats and tried to climb in, one of the occupants punched him in the face and wouldn't let him in. He was in that water for 2 days before he was rescued, and he received the Purple Heart.

Wikipedia Link
Posted by Zarkinletch416
Deep in the Heart of Texas
Member since Jan 2020
8369 posts
Posted on 8/6/20 at 10:15 am to
quote:

Let's all hope that such awesome power is never released on humanity again.


Given the proliferation of nuclear weapons in the hands of demons like Kim Jong-un it's inevitable we will see this horror again.

Know what is really disgusting? Our pal Bill Clinton gave our most modern nuclear warhead technology to the ChiComs who in turn gave it their ally North Korea.
This post was edited on 8/6/20 at 10:18 am
Posted by jlovel7
Louisiana
Member since Aug 2014
21305 posts
Posted on 8/6/20 at 10:19 am to
quote:

what he is saying is right, then he is 26 years old. 1945+49=1994

2020-1994=26

26+10=36

36=/=49



you’re right I totally fricked up that math
Posted by blueridgeTiger
Granbury, TX
Member since Jun 2004
20224 posts
Posted on 8/6/20 at 10:22 am to
I'm one of the few on this board who can remember when those bombs were dropped. I still recall my grandfather sitting at the breakfast reading the Picayune and saying over and over: "One bomb can wipe out a whole city."

Just a little aside note: my grandson was born in Hiroshima 22 years ago.
Posted by DownshiftAndFloorIt
Here
Member since Jan 2011
66763 posts
Posted on 8/6/20 at 10:27 am to
quote:

it's inevitable we will see this horror again.


People have to remember that this is 75 year old tech. While it is no simpler to build now than it was then, It's foolish to believe that there will not be a Sum of all Fears scenario at some point in the future of mankind.
Posted by Lynxrufus2012
Central Kentucky
Member since Mar 2020
12063 posts
Posted on 8/6/20 at 10:34 am to
Thank God that President Truman had the courage to drop those bombs. He saved millions of lives, Japanese, American, Chinese, British, Russian etc. An invasion would have been a bloodbath. My dad was in Europe with the 387th Bomb Group in Marauders. The plan was to come stateside, train up some more young men then off to the invasion.

Those that second guess Truman should put themselves in his shoes. Try explaining to a grieving mother that you had a weapon that could have ended the war before her son died but chose not to use it.
Posted by No Colors
Sandbar
Member since Sep 2010
10332 posts
Posted on 8/6/20 at 10:36 am to
quote:

Bill Clinton gave our most modern nuclear warhead technology to the ChiComs who in turn gave it their ally North Korea.

I'm gonna need a link on this one....
Posted by jchamil
Member since Nov 2009
16459 posts
Posted on 8/6/20 at 10:37 am to
quote:

So very true. Read "Flyboys:A True Story of Courage"

Flyboys: A True Story of Courage is a nonfiction book by writer James Bradley, and a national bestseller in the US. This book details a World War II incident of the execution and cannibalism of five of eight American POWs on the Pacific island of Chichi-jima, one of the Ogasawara Islands.


My grandad was a POW on an island around there, I can't remember which island but he had been on the San Jacinto. He was a torpedo pilot and had his plane cut in half by a kamikaze, he was picked up by a Japanese fishing boat and turned over to their navy, a few miles difference and he could have ended up on ChiChi Jima. He probably would have died over there had the bombs not been dropped
Posted by X123F45
Member since Apr 2015
27349 posts
Posted on 8/6/20 at 10:42 am to
quote:

I shudder to think what the Germans might have done with it first


The Nazis weren't nearly as bad as the Russians or japs.

That's what's terrifying.
Posted by Sal Minio
17th Street Canal
Member since Sep 2006
4180 posts
Posted on 8/6/20 at 11:00 am to
How much more powerful are nuclear bombs today than the Hiroshima bomb?
Posted by UKWildcats
Lexington, KY
Member since Mar 2015
17043 posts
Posted on 8/6/20 at 11:18 am to
quote:

All I need to know about whether it was the right decision is that it took 2 bombs for them to surrender. 1 wasn’t enough...
Well said man.
Posted by UKWildcats
Lexington, KY
Member since Mar 2015
17043 posts
Posted on 8/6/20 at 11:19 am to
Edit: double post
This post was edited on 8/6/20 at 12:27 pm
Posted by sosaysmorvant
River Parishes, LA
Member since Feb 2008
1307 posts
Posted on 8/6/20 at 11:20 am to
quote:

How much more powerful are nuclear bombs today than the Hiroshima bomb?


How much faster is your internet connection than back in the dial up days?
Posted by Loup
Ferriday
Member since Apr 2019
11212 posts
Posted on 8/6/20 at 11:21 am to
quote:

“Science allows us to communicate across the seas and fly above the clouds, to cure disease and understand the cosmos, but those same discoveries can be turned into ever more efficient killing machines. The wars of the modern age teach us this truth. Hiroshima teaches this truth. Technological progress without an equivalent progress in human institutions can doom us.”
Posted by dukke v
PLUTO
Member since Jul 2006
202644 posts
Posted on 8/6/20 at 11:28 am to
We could wipe out the whole country of North Korea within mins if we wanted to.
Posted by Sal Minio
17th Street Canal
Member since Sep 2006
4180 posts
Posted on 8/6/20 at 11:44 am to
So, 1000 x more powerful?
Posted by FlyingTiger06
Bossier City, LA
Member since Nov 2004
1886 posts
Posted on 8/6/20 at 11:57 am to
quote:

The Norden bombsight was a triumph in technological engineering. Variations of the original design are still used today on our B-52 bombers.


We don't have a variation of the Norden bombsight. Our Offensive Avionics System uses the same algorithms that the Norden uses to calculate where the ballistic release locus (essentially a circle around the target), or BRL, is and then commands our auto-pilot to fly the aircraft to the intercept point of that locus from our current position. When the aircraft gets to the closest point of approach to that intersection, the system commands release of the bomb(s). The BRL is derived from either aiming with our radar or advanced targeting pod (electro-optical or infrared). For the radar, you can either aim directly at the target if it is "radar significant" (i.e. metal) or you can aim at a pre-determined offset aimpoint and the computer does the trigonometry to adjust the BRL for the relative adjustment as you adjust aim on that offset aimpoint.
Posted by CrawDude
Baton Rouge
Member since Apr 2019
5264 posts
Posted on 8/6/20 at 12:16 pm to
My uncle was radio and later radar operator on B-29s stationed on Tinian and flew bomber missions over Japan. He mentioned to my Dad Hiroshima was a burning cinder from his observation flying over Hiroshima on a mission after the atomic bomb was dropped.

He was a bit of a amateur photographer and these are a couple photos he took (I took photos from his photo album at a family reunion a year ago this month). Of course the photos of the Enola Gay and Great Artiste (observation B-29 that flew both the Hiroshima and Nagasaki missions) was after the bomber missions as it was top secret before the missions. Second photo is one he took out of his plane’s window on a bombing mission to Toyota.



This post was edited on 8/6/20 at 1:44 pm
Posted by TigerstuckinMS
Member since Nov 2005
33687 posts
Posted on 8/6/20 at 12:22 pm to
quote:

It's a good thing that they weren't aware we didn't have any more bombs ready.

That's technically true, but not really.

We had plans to continue dropping bombs on Japan and destroying cities one by one until they capitulated. We couldn't keep up the one every three days pace we did between Hiroshima and Nagasaki. However, by the 19th of August or so, there would have been another Fat Man ready. We were prepared to completely destroy Japanese cities at the rate of one every week or two after Nagasaki. And we could do that in perpetuity, because that's about how long it was taking us to produce the nuclear material for a bomb.

We didn't have the weapons stockpiled, but we could crank them out as long as it took to turn the entirety of the Japanese islands into green glass or get a surrender. There was literally nothing the Japanese could do to prevent it, either. They had no way to really get at Superfortresses. All they could do is see the three planes coming and wonder if the bomb with their name on it was in one of them.
This post was edited on 8/6/20 at 12:24 pm
Posted by TigerstuckinMS
Member since Nov 2005
33687 posts
Posted on 8/6/20 at 12:39 pm to
quote:

How much more powerful are nuclear bombs today than the Hiroshima bomb?

Roughly 10 to 25, in terms of energy released. The atomic devices dropped on Hiroshima and Nagasaki were around 20 kiloton devices. Most deployed American nuclear devices today are in the 200-500 kiloton range. Far larger devices can be made (the Soviets made a 50 megaton device and we made a 15 megaton device), but it's more effective to send four 500 kiloton devices than one 2 megaton device.

This is because destruction doesn't scale with the energy of the device due to the inverse square law. You have to quadruple the energy to push specific effects out twice as far. If buildings crumble at 1 mile, you need four times the energy to get them to crumble at 2. It doesn't follow the inverse square law exactly, either; as device yields go up, the mix of damage mechanisms and their behavior changes, so there's some non-linearity in there and you kind of start to hit a plateau beyond which you get no real additional effect for a bigger device. Basically, very large devices become less efficient at destruction, in essence. 10 to 25 times more energy in a single device doesn't equal 10 to 25 times more destruction.

Also, those massive yields require correspondingly more massive warheads, making them much harder to deliver. While making devices with huge yields was a great propaganda tool, when talking about strategy it's more effective and easier to use multiple smaller devices and scatter them around a city to spread the damage out more (for a given tonnage) and to provide some redundancy and overlap in case one or more fails to detonate. After all, when something's destroyed, it can't get more destroyed, so it makes sense to not rely on one overly large and hard to deliver device when a lot of smaller devices with the same total yield turns a lot more stuff into plasma and provides backup.

Still, don't discount the power of a 500 kt device that is typical today. If you're within about 6 miles of one, you're likely going to die from any number of causes. Mechanical (crushing, tearing, blast effects, etc.), thermal (third degree burns), or ionizing radiation. Take your pick. When you start talking about fallout, a device of that class reaches FAR. For instance, if one went off over New Orleans, the footprint of fallout that can cause a lethal dose with only 8 hours of exposure could reach Baton Rouge. Who gets the fun and exactly how far out is just a matter of the direction the mid to upper level winds are blowing. And that's just the immediately lethal dose, too, we haven't begun to talk about the increased cancer deaths. If you survive the immediate dose in the high fallout area, your chances of developing a lethal cancer later are something like 50% in this worst hit area.
This post was edited on 8/6/20 at 4:17 pm
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