re: 50 percent of American adults can’t read at or above an 8th grade level.

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except that’s definitely not what demographics means when it comes to information.

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I know that, you know that, and you know I know that. That's exactly why I said, "on these boards".

If that's not what you meant, you should avoid using the term on the boards. I suspect it is what you meant, however.

Are they uneducated because they're black? Are they uneducated because they're poor? Are they poor because they're black? Are they uneducated because their parents don't trust the education system? Do the parents not trust the education system because they're uneducated?

I don't think your correlations are going to answer these questions.

I also don't think race is much of a factor considering blacks only make up about 13% of the population, and the OP's stats say 50% of American adults. Also, blacks make up only 15% of public school students in the US. So I don't think we can just say it's the public school blacks that are the problem and leave it at that.

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If that's not what you meant, you should avoid using the term on the boards

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You aren’t the language police, bub.

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I also don't think race is much of a factor considering blacks only make up about 13% of the population, and the OP's stats say 50% of American adults. Also, blacks make up only 15% of public school students in the US. So I don't think we can just say it's the public school blacks that are the problem and leave it at that.

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Well then the numbers and demographics of the study should bear that out.

Because saying that, in general, 50% of random Americans are illiterate is a silly number.

Unless we are all exactly the same with no differences.

Can I get a source for this? I went to some of the sources at the bottom and I noticed some odd things, which may be functions of the writer's rhetorical stance. For example, this excerpt says that 1/3 of fourth-graders reach proficient reading level, but they aren't really defining what 'proficient' means here. What does it correlate to? Apparently that is from the National Assessment of Educational Progress, which defines achievement levels like this:

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NAEP Basic
Fourth-grade students performing at the NAEP Basic level should be able to locate relevant information, make simple inferences, and use their understanding of the text to identify details that support a given interpretation or conclusion. Students should be able to interpret the meaning of a word as it is used in the text.

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NAEP Proficient

Fourth-grade students performing at the NAEP Proficient level should be able to integrate and interpret texts and apply their understanding of the text to draw conclusions and make evaluations.

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NAEP Advanced

Fourth-grade students performing at the NAEP Advanced level should be able to make complex inferences and construct and support their inferential understanding of the text. Students should be able to apply their under-standing of a text to make and support a judgment.

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'Proficient' in their terms is quite high, as integrating and interpreting texts and applying conclusions is a skill that many adults can't do. That report also says that 66 percent of fourth-grade students performed at the basic level and 35 percent performed at the proficient level, with 9 percent at the advanced level. Why the excerpt says only 1/3 reached a proficient level and didn't seem to count the 1/3 that scored below the NAEP basic level is a curious choice, as the latter feels far more important to me than the former. It seems dishonest to me, mainly because the NAEP definition suggests something different from the vernacular use of 'proficient.'

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50 percent of American adults can’t read at or above an 8th grade level.

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Not sure I believe it's 50%. I'm sure it's very high, but not 50%.

Another thing that struck me was the 45 million number. It says 45 million Americans are functionally illiterate, which translates to about 14% of our population? But that is a far lower number than the number of 4th-graders who don't reach the NAEP's definition of Basic reading skills. By 8th grade, 27% of people score below NAEP Basic while only 4 percent reach NAEP Advanced. By 12th grade, 30% of students score below NAEP Basic. So what accounts for the smaller number of 'functionally illiterate' if the reading scores at each grade-level suggest actually 1/3 of the population is below their reading level?

I'd wager a large amount of money that there is a group, predominately boys, which these sorts of tests label as below basic reading levels, who are in fact just boys hemmed into a Prussian style learning system that neither accounts for the reality of how boys develop, which when combined with a learning system that focuses heavily on the completion of assignments in a timely manner, means that this group will always score below their best because the learning environment itself isn't suited to them.

Can you post the link to this...Not that I think it's untrue.

I want to use it as Proof to some people I know who obviously read below an 8th-grade level.

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Another thing that struck me was the 45 million number. It says 45 million Americans are functionally illiterate, which translates to about 14% of our population? But that is a far lower number than the number of 4th-graders who don't reach the NAEP's definition of Basic reading skills.

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Im also thinking immigration.

You think these men from somalia, afghanistan, and central america are top class readers? probably not.

These types of refugees or illegals probably never even went to school really.


And i know first hand adults that came here that cant speak a lick of english, probably cant read, but their kids going to public school can speak the parents language and english and read.


A friend of mines mom is from poland and shes been in the us longer than ive been alive and can still barely speak english.

That could be possible, but doesn't explain the discrepancy between reading scores between adults and children that I highlighted.

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Think of how stupid the average person is, and realize half of them are stupider than that.

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Ummm, that is not how averages work, George....