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Started By
Message
re: Saints fan saying they should tank
Posted on 2/23/23 at 10:16 pm to armsdealer
Posted on 2/23/23 at 10:16 pm to armsdealer
quote:
You can take your cap medicine and also try to win... Might even find some franchise players hiding in the rough.
Bingo. You try to win as much as possible. Teams that are really bad almost never are 1 player away from playoff contention.
The problems with tanking for a QB are:
- Team has to be bad enough to draft extremely high
-Hope there is a “can’t miss” franchise QB available
-Hope he pans out - you can’t miss on pick
- Hope you don’t piss off the talented players you do have while you tank
Wilson, Lance, Fields, Murray, Mayfield, Darnold, Rosen, Trubisky and Goff were all high draft picks and haven’t accomplished anything. Jury still out on Tua and D. Jones (NY) and M. Jones(NE), though he was drafted mid-first. .
Tanking to pick a QB extremely high isn’t a sure-fire strategy. If you miss on a high QB pick, you set yourself back several years. You might also run off guys you want to build around. And for every Burrow or Lawrence, there are several more like the list above. A better strategy is scouting good and having a good QB coach to develop a young QB regardless of what round they were picked. Prescott and Hurts fit this template. Maybe you get a starter, maybe not. Scouting has been a huge Saints problem. Grayson, Book, etc. were drafted way too high and weren’t capable of being developed. Taysom isn’t an QB. Our scouting and development sucks. I’d want that fixed before we tank to draft a QB high.
This post was edited on 2/23/23 at 10:18 pm
0
Posted on 2/24/23 at 6:18 am to Tigerfan870769
quote:
is y’all’s
Speaking of misery...
Posted on 2/24/23 at 8:19 am to Fun Bunch
quote:
You either have a great QB or you don’t. If you don’t then nothing matters.
I don’t know about all that.
Super Bowl winning QBs not named Tom Brady over the last 20 years are Brad Johnson, Ben Rothlesburger, Eli Manning, Drew Brees, Peyton Manning, Aaron Rodgers, Russell Wilson, Joe Flacco, Nick Foles, Patrick Mahomes and Matt Stafford.
Losing QBs in the Super Bowl not previously named during that period have been Rich Gannon, Jake Delhomme, Donavan McNabb, Matt Hasselbeck, Rex Grossman, Kurt Warner, Colin Kaepernick, Cam Newton, Matt Ryan, Jared Goff, Jimmy Garoppolo, Joe Burrow and Jalen Hurts.
There’s a lot of elite and great QBs in there. But there’s also some okay QBs in there too.
You could be a team that sucks for 30 years and try to hit the lottery in the draft with a Joe Burrow. Or you can try to build a good team and good culture and find the right year to make a run. And even if you’re lucky enough to get a Burrow and not a Josh Rosen or Jake Locker, it wasn’t like he got drafted and they were good all of a sudden. They signed a crapload of free agents to shore up the defense and now are a really good defensive team.
Basically, I think teams either try or they don’t.
Posted on 2/24/23 at 8:33 am to Tigerfan870769
You absolutely never want to be a franchise that "tanks" purposely. You have to at least fight to stay mid tier. Otherwise you develop a losing organization reputation and not only do no free agents want to sign with you, no good young players you develop want to stay with you.
Posted on 2/24/23 at 8:43 am to Tigerfan870769
Yep, AINTS did really good this past season with a desperate HC and no real QB. They're going places!!!
Posted on 2/24/23 at 9:00 am to Tigerfan870769
quote:
How miserable is y’all’s life to wish for that? You trying to make the real fans just as miserable as you? Sad
I would absolutely suffer a 0-17 season if it meant that we were again relevant for the next decade. If we went 0-17 we would absolutely get a new head coach. Hopefully one of those young offensive minded ones to add to the new young franchise QB.
Posted on 2/24/23 at 9:24 am to Tigerfan870769
I see this season as a win-win. Either we suck, get a high draft pick, and DA gets fired, or we improve enough to the point of making the playoffs. We don't have to be much better to win the south.
Posted on 2/24/23 at 9:40 am to red sox fan 13
It's as much about getting out of cap hell as tanking.
We can't keep kicking it forward. The window is slammed shut.
Need to get off terrible contracts like Peat, Thomas, Jordan, etc. Stop adding void years. Take the hit and start fresh.
We can't keep kicking it forward. The window is slammed shut.
Need to get off terrible contracts like Peat, Thomas, Jordan, etc. Stop adding void years. Take the hit and start fresh.
Posted on 2/24/23 at 9:55 am to ghost2most
The cap means absolutely nothing ... it is an imaginary number that we have never had a problem navigating. I would even go as far as saying that we are a much better drafting organization than a FA destination, so it works to our advantage not having money to spend on big FAs, since we almost always whiff on them.
Posted on 2/24/23 at 9:57 am to BRL79
quote:
if you still lose then fix the problem, don't create the problem
If it was that easy, why isn’t every GM in all of pro sports not just “fixing” their bad team? What do you think teams are trying to accomplish by tanking?
Posted on 2/24/23 at 10:54 am to Tigerfan870769
I'm curious how a team tanks.
Players and coaches are not gonna intentionally suck, their careers are on the line.
So which players are gonna intentionally suck?
Which coaches?
Players and coaches are not gonna intentionally suck, their careers are on the line.
So which players are gonna intentionally suck?
Which coaches?
Posted on 2/24/23 at 10:59 am to saints5021
quote:
The cap means absolutely nothing ... it is an imaginary number that we have never had a problem navigating.
This! People on here act like it’s their money.
You either draft well and pay to keep players and swing for a big name FA (what we do and what Buffalo has done), or trade away draft picks for big name players in an effort to put yourself over the top (L.A., Denver & Miami method)
Either way, Cap Space & Draft Picks aren’t showing up on your 52 man roster to win you games. Players win games.
And you can’t keep everyone, even if you want to. Tyreke Hill left K.C., Hopkins left Houston, Diggs left Minnesota, etc. etc.
Posted on 2/24/23 at 11:45 am to HangmanPage1
quote:
You are even more delusional. The problem is we lack a franchise QB. We have no cap room to sign any. The prospects based on our draft picks are scarce. We need a year to bite the cap Bullet, and readjust. The word strategy is lost on some of you. If it was as easy as you say, everyone would be super bowl contenders. We need to tank to get spending money and high draft picks to get a QB. Damn, this ain’t rocket science
Well then we need to blow up the whole thing, not just tank to hopefully get a franchise QB. Otherwise we would be the historical Browns. How many "franchise QBs" have they gone through? But I guess you're no rocket scientist either.
ETA: By the way, you pricks on here definitely live by what they say, too comfortable online knowing you can't get punched in the face. Some of you can't make a post without throwing in some insults. Looks weak minded to me.
This post was edited on 2/24/23 at 11:49 am
Posted on 2/24/23 at 1:09 pm to BRL79
quote:
Play to win, if you still lose then fix the problem, don't create the problem
Then you'll be on here for the next 3 years bitching about the team constantly missing the playoffs but never drafting in the top 10.
I'd rather this team be awful for a couple years then get it together versus consistent 7-8 win seasons.
Posted on 2/24/23 at 1:22 pm to dcrews
quote:
I'd rather this team be awful for a couple years then get it together versus consistent 7-8 win seasons.
I think your premise is flawed. You don’t have to be terrible like the Bengals or Browns forever to be good. Look at Kansas City. Look at the Rams and Eagles the last few years. The Ravens. The Packers. You don’t have to tank for the number one pick to be good. Be good and find the players you need after that.
Everyone is obsessed with the top draft pick. This isn’t the NBA. In the NFL, it usually doesn’t work out like that. You get a bunch of Kyler Murray’s and Josh Rosen’s when you could have had a Patrick Mahomes or a Jalen Hurts.
And in todays NFL, FA is can land you a QB. Look at Stafford, Brady in Tampa, Brees, Manning in Denver, Jimmy G. in San Fran, Kurt Warner and Carson Palmer in Arizona. Have a good team and good culture.
Posted on 2/25/23 at 5:45 am to Tigerfan870769
Tank for Caleb all day
Posted on 2/25/23 at 7:14 am to Lake Vegas Tiger
quote:
Tank for Caleb all day
The problem with tanking is there is no guarantee you'll even be good at tanking, when truly bad teams always get the 1st pick wthout even trying to tank.
Just look at Atlanta where Falcons fans cheered on "blowing it all up" after Ryan, Julio, Ridley, Gage, etc. were all suddenly gone and were sure that with that scab roster, they would get Bryce Young this draft. Now, they are picking 8th and stuck in sub-mediocrity.
Posted on 2/25/23 at 7:18 am to saints5021
quote:
The cap means absolutely nothing ... it is an imaginary number that we have never had a problem navigating.
Each year we increase dead money on our cap, which means we shut out 10%+ (and growing) of our cap for players not even on the team.
That means something.
quote:
. I would even go as far as saying that we are a much better drafting organization than a FA destination
Which becomes irrelevant when we can't re-sign our quality drafted guys (Henrickson, Williams, etc.)
If we didn't create cap hell we'd have both on this team, and we wouldn't be paying guys like Taysom Hill literally insane money with no way to get rid of him. We also wouldn't have 2 bad safety contrats (Maye, Mathieu) that are already taking away future cap space via restructuring.
You don't think that having a cleaner cap to re-sign our quality drafted talent and avoid shite contracts we can't get rid of would have us in a better position than we are looking forward?
Posted on 2/25/23 at 7:20 am to Suntiger
quote:
Tyreke Hill left K.C.
Because they are paying an elite QB top money and pay for the best TE in football. They also got a haul for him (something we haven't shown to be able to do)
quote:
Diggs left Minnesota,
Like the Tyreke situation but the lite-version. Not comparable to us.
quote:
Hopkins left Houston
Because BOB is one of the worst GMs in NFL history, not because of cap-related issues.
Posted on 2/25/23 at 7:48 am to saints5021
quote:
The cap means absolutely nothing ... it is an imaginary number that we have never had a problem navigating.
Just because we can get under the cap doesn’t mean we aren’t rendering a percentage of our cap useless because it’s full of dummy years, dead money, and other bullshite Loomis has pushed forward.
That makes us have to make decisions on those same drafted players that we would otherwise be able to sign to a second contract when they are hitting their prime.
This post was edited on 2/25/23 at 8:01 am
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