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re: Walker Kessler "doesn't seem to be part of the Jazz's long-term plan."
Posted on 8/24/24 at 5:02 pm to GOP_Tiger
Posted on 8/24/24 at 5:02 pm to GOP_Tiger
quote:They have a ton of picks already. I would think that if (and that could be a big if) they like Hawk as a young prospect for the future, he and some combination of 1 1st and/.or a 2nd should be enough. If they do not value Hawkins, I am not sure there is a deal to be done.
Yeah, I don't think that Utah wants Ingram. So, some kind of Ingram for Collins/Kessler trade would have to involve a third team that actually does want Ingram.
The deal that Utah almost certainly wants to do is Hawk + 2 firsts for Kessler. They want picks.
And Griff doesn't want to pay Ainge's price, or the deal would already be done.
So, we have a staring contest, and we'll have to see who blinks first. I think that it will depend on our record to start the season. If we can win games with Theis and/or small-ball lineups, then Griff may eventually be able to force Utah to cave and get Kessler for less than the current asking price.
1
Posted on 8/24/24 at 6:45 pm to NOSHAU
quote:
If they do not value Hawkins, I am not sure there is a deal to be done.
This is the thing about developing players and retaining their value, they have to play. Good players don't just burst out after 2 or 3 years of sporadic minutes, there is a progression. If we valued Hawkins and wanted him to get better, he has to play. Even if that means we are worse for it. That's the sacrifice. Guys can't play every other game or a few minutes here and there.
Hawkins isn't in our 2 deep right now, barring an injury. Maybe Missi really emerges in camp (like Jones did) and we find ourselves a gem. But that doesn't seem likely, and he probably ends up being our 5th big. Our first next year should be in the 20s again. So if we can trade our 11th and 14th best players, plus a late 1st next year for a cheap starting Center that going to start and play 20-25mpg, I mean, that's a no brainer..
Posted on 8/24/24 at 7:10 pm to brmark70816
quote:
If we valued Hawkins and wanted him to get better, he has to play. Even if that means we are worse for it. That's the sacrifice. Guys can't play every other game or a few minutes here and there.
Hawkins isn't in our 2 deep right now, barring an injury.
He wasn't in the 2-deep before we signed Javonte Green. He's not even close to it now. It would take multiple injuries.
Murray
Herb
BI
Zion
CJ
Trey
Theis
Center #2 (whoever wins that spot)
Jose
Green
Hawkins will not play above any of them, and the #11 player in the rotation normally doesn't play.
Posted on 8/25/24 at 10:24 am to GOP_Tiger
quote:
Jose
Green
Hawkins will not play above any of them, and the #11 player in the rotation normally doesn't play.
Also there are several free agent vets that can help at the PG/ SG position for cheap.
Lonnie Walker
Horton-Tucker
Dennis Smith Jr
Markelle Fultz
Personally I'd trade Hawk+ JRE+ 1st for Kessler. Sign Jemison and Dennis Smith Jr.
Murray/ Jose/ DSJ/ Reeves
BI/ CJ/ Jose
Herb/ Trey/ Green
Zion/ Karlo/ Jemison
Theis/ Kessler / Missi
(11) man rotation with Jose as #2PG and #3SG.
Posted on 8/25/24 at 11:57 am to GOP_Tiger
quote:
He wasn't in the 2-deep before we signed Javonte Green
Hawkins will play ahead of Green, imo.
Posted on 8/25/24 at 1:02 pm to SEC Doctor
quote:
Hawkins will play ahead of Green, imo.
It's tough. If we keep Ingram, we have 4 starter level players for spots 2 and 3. It's going to be tough to get all 4 of them 30ish mpg, even with smaller lineups (I'm excited to see some Alvarado/Murray lineups too). I just don't see him getting much run.
At this point, he should be a solid 16-20mpg specialist, with the expectation he'd be challenging for a starting spot in '25. We are all treating him like an afterthought, which isn't good..
Posted on 8/25/24 at 7:05 pm to SEC Doctor
Green is a winning player and Hawkins isn’t yet. Shooting potential be damned. Green is going to get a ton of run this season.
Posted on 8/26/24 at 9:25 am to brmark70816
quote:
Ainge is winning that fight. They are no where near ready. They can claw to 40 wins. But they did nothing to bolster the roster to make a run. They had the assets and flexibility to make several big moves, if they were going to win now. They didn't do that. Plus all their starters are on the trade block (except Markkanen). It seems like a young team that is still building.
There is a world in between out right tanking and making moves going after all-stars.
Posted on 8/26/24 at 9:26 am to Dantheman504
quote:
The negotiations might be stuck at Hawk + Missi + 1st. Or (2) 1st + Hawk/ Missi. The hint being "Utah values Kessler at (3) 1st".
Nah.
No one is giving anything close to 3 firsts for walker Kessler.
This post was edited on 8/26/24 at 9:27 am
Posted on 8/26/24 at 10:33 am to 3PieceSpicy
quote:
Green is a winning player and Hawkins isn’t yet. Shooting potential be damned. Green is going to get a ton of run this season.
How is Javonte Green a winning player?
In no way do I want JG getting run over Hawkins. I mean it's for sure going to happen, but it's not going to be for the betterment of the team. Hawkins is a guy that could be an NBA starter, JG isn't.
Posted on 8/26/24 at 10:42 am to Chalkywhite84
I wouldn't teade Missi for Kessler.
Posted on 8/26/24 at 11:19 am to iwyLSUiwy
quote:
Hawkins is a guy that could be an NBA starter, JG isn't.
What would be the progression to get him there? He is legit blocked by 2 others currently (McCollum and Jones). Also, the team aggressively went after Reeves, who could get minutes. I just don't see a path forward with him. We would need to move some bodies to make that happen..
Posted on 8/26/24 at 11:35 am to brmark70816
quote:
What would be the progression to get him there? He is legit blocked by 2 others currently (McCollum and Jones). Also, the team aggressively went after Reeves, who could get minutes. I just don't see a path forward with him. We would need to move some bodies to make that happen..
Yea I'm not saying this year. But if he keeps getting better as a shooter he quickly becomes a very nice 6th man. If he makes progression better than expected he could move CJ to the 6th man spot or make him expendable.
I'm not saying that's going to happen, but I think he has the potential and the talent. I would much much rather we invest in developing Hawkins and giving him the minutes over a 31 year old JG. One thing I know for sure, is he is not a key piece moving forward, Hawkins at least has the potential to be.
Posted on 8/26/24 at 12:02 pm to iwyLSUiwy
quote:
Hawkins is a guy that could be an NBA starter, JG isn't.
Maybe, but that's not happening on this team anytime soon, as we already have 5 guys that need to start and only 3 positions available for them.
quote:
How is Javonte Green a winning player?
Every team needs good role players. He's a good role player. Shoots well and plays good defense.
Posted on 8/26/24 at 12:44 pm to PNG Futbol
quote:
I wouldn't teade Missi for Kessler.
Wut? I'd trade Missi for a future first right now. I'm not impressed with him.
Posted on 8/26/24 at 1:03 pm to TeddyPadillac
Keesler does not fit with Z. The same bloggers who dislike B beçause of fit love Keesler. Guessing WK is mobile with a three point shot and does not clog the lane
The team is overloaded with shooting guards. Would not be surprised if CJ quuetly requested a trade. Can not believe CJ is happy with the off-season moves and being a possible sixth man. Tràining camp will be interesting with all the shooting guards vying for 48 minutes..
The team is overloaded with shooting guards. Would not be surprised if CJ quuetly requested a trade. Can not believe CJ is happy with the off-season moves and being a possible sixth man. Tràining camp will be interesting with all the shooting guards vying for 48 minutes..
Posted on 8/26/24 at 1:35 pm to TeddyPadillac
quote:
Every team needs good role players. He's a good role player. Shoots well and plays good defense.
I mean I don't think that really qualifies him as a winning player.
I mean his best season was the 21/22 season. Averaged 7/4/1 in 23 mpg and 36% from deep as a 27 year old. Hawkins as a 21 year old rookie went 8/2/1 in 17 mpg.
I don't know about JG defense but if you say he's good on defense I believe you. Nothing about this guy makes me want to give him minutes over a kid that clearly has a higher ceiling, much less give him a ton of run like was mentioned. Every team needs good role players, yes, and I'm glad we have a good role player, but I don't necessarily call your 9th man on the roster that hasn't really proven much a winning player.
Posted on 8/26/24 at 2:15 pm to iwyLSUiwy
quote:
Nothing about this guy makes me want to give him minutes over a kid that clearly has a higher ceiling, much less give him a ton of run like was mentioned.
I don't think anyone would say I'd rather Green play than Hawkins. We all would like Hawkins to play, and to be good, and to get better. Problem is he hasn't been very good, and while i dont care much about the summer league, he didn't look good there either.
Posted on 8/26/24 at 2:39 pm to TeddyPadillac
Hey may be the weakest/ smallest 6'5" 190lb players that ever existed.
Posted on 8/27/24 at 9:08 am to TeddyPadillac
quote:In theory, this should work itself out...in theory.
I don't think anyone would say I'd rather Green play than Hawkins. We all would like Hawkins to play, and to be good, and to get better. Problem is he hasn't been very good, and while i dont care much about the summer league, he didn't look good there either.
If year 2 Jordan Hawkins can't show that he's clearly better than a dude like Javonte Green, then he does not deserve playing time over Green. If he's not a bust and good like many think he is or will be, then Hawkins should easily be better than Green right now, this season.
If the season starts and Hawkins is buried on the bench behind JG, we can bash Willie. Maybe we're right and Willie just won't give Hawk the chance. But maybe...maybe Hawk has showed in practice that he just isn't better than JG, so now what? I get he has more potential, but again, this is year 2, it's time to move.
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