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re: Pelicans Trade Rumors and Chatter
Posted on 1/21/24 at 8:56 am to ned nederlander
Posted on 1/21/24 at 8:56 am to ned nederlander
quote:
Pardon my ignorance, but why are the cavs trading Allen to the Pels in any of these scenarios? They are number 4 in their conference, 10 games over .500, despite Mobley and garland missing half the season.
They want more shooters.
JA’s on/off defensive stats are negligible to them b/c Mobley is the key defensive difference maker for them.
1
Posted on 1/21/24 at 9:06 am to Pels_Yaz
quote:
you need to ask yourself a couple questions about Dyson.
First off what he does he do offensively at a NBA level well? Because honestly I don’t know a single thing he does well.
- He has a quality handle.
- His passing is excellent.
- His floater is good.
- His touch at the rim, while still not good, is much improved.
- His spin move can reliably create space for him to get his shot off.
If you haven't seen Dyson's improvement this season, then you need to pay closer attention.
I went over to BBall Index's site and looked at his LEBRON impact metrics:
2022-23
O-LEBRON: -2.76, D-LEBRON: +0.94, Total LEBRON: -1.82
2023-24
O-LEBRON -0.86, D-LEBRON +1.34, Total LEBRON +0.47
So, last season, Dyson was a negative player overall, and his play this season is far improved, and his minutes contribute to the team playing winning basketball.
If you think that Dyson has peaked, then I don't know what to tell you.
Posted on 1/21/24 at 9:06 am to Pels_Yaz
double post
This post was edited on 1/21/24 at 9:07 am
Posted on 1/21/24 at 9:09 am to TeddyPadillac
quote:
JA’s on/off defensive stats are negligible to them b/c Mobley is the key defensive difference maker for them.
Their problem is essentially the same as ours: our normal two starting bigs don't fit with each other.
Mobley and Allen simply do not fit, and the Cavs are paying Allen too much to bring him off the bench.
Posted on 1/21/24 at 10:03 am to GOP_Tiger
In Christian Clarks latest article he states Jarret Allen, Okongwu and WCJ as the most likely Pels targets.
Posted on 1/21/24 at 10:44 am to GOP_Tiger
quote:I've never seen this in Dyson. His passing is fine, but I've never thought it's been sooooo good.
His passing is excellent.
Posted on 1/21/24 at 10:57 am to GOP_Tiger
quote:
He has a quality handle. - His passing is excellent. - His floater is good. - His touch at the rim, while still not good, is much improved. - His spin move can reliably create space for him to get his shot off.
He does not have a quality handle.
- anytime he remotely is pressured he gives up the ball. He can dribble the ball upcourt but this is not called a quality handle.
Excellent passing?
- hes an adequate passer. The guy averages 2.7 assists a game- not sure how thats excellent.
Floater is good?
- its ok. This isn’t some indefensible move.
Improved touch at rim?
- you need glasses. He has one of the worst touches at the rim.
Spin move?
- lol are you serious? How many times this season has he used this?
quote:
So, last season, Dyson was a negative player overall, and his play this season is far improved, and his minutes contribute to the team playing winning basketball. If you think that Dyson has peaked, then I don't know what to tell you.
Far improved? Hes a postive 0.47. Hes barely an impact player. Adding adjectives to his skillset like excellent and quality to things he does- doesn’t make him better. Anyone who watches basketball will tell you with Dyson he can be a solid to good defender but offensively the guy is atrocious. Thats not winning basketball.
If you think Dyson somehow will magically turn into an offensive player that will regularly contribute in a positive manner, I don’t know what to tell you.
The pels dont have time to wait till hes 26 to finally figure out that he needs to be aggressive going to the rim. Honestly no NBA team has that type of time.
Posted on 1/21/24 at 11:00 am to Soggymoss
quote:
In Christian Clarks latest article he states Jarret Allen, Okongwu and WCJ as the most likely Pels targets.
Thats a pretty big drop off from Jarrett Allen to Okongwu and WCJ. Okongwu is a good player but hes never been in a starting role and WCJ is constantly injured.
Posted on 1/21/24 at 11:06 am to Pels_Yaz
quote:
Thats a pretty big drop off from Jarrett Allen to Okongwu and WCJ. Okongwu is a good player but hes never been in a starting role and WCJ is constantly injured.
Big drop off yes, also big drop off in price. I’m gonna get shite for this but want to trade Larry + Pels 24 1st for Okongwu. I’m a big fan of his game and he’s locked up on a great deal.
Posted on 1/21/24 at 11:11 am to Balsamic_duck
quote:
Big drop off yes, also big drop off in price. I’m gonna get shite for this but want to trade Larry + Pels 24 1st for Okongwu. I’m a big fan of his game and he’s locked up on a great deal.
I’m sure thats what Hawks are asking but not sure I’m giving this up for a guy who can’t even start. I think hes a solid player but I find it strange that hes never been good enough for hawks to get rid of capella.
Posted on 1/21/24 at 11:21 am to Soggymoss
I actually like WCJ. He’s pretty good off the bench and has size. I’m not sure about his quickness on defense or shot blocking ability. Is he able to do that?
Posted on 1/21/24 at 11:44 am to Pels_Yaz
quote:
Far improved? Hes a postive 0.47
From -1.82. That is far improved.
quote:
Anyone who watches basketball will tell you with Dyson he can be a solid to good defender but offensively the guy is atrocious.
Now who needs their eyes fixed? Dyson is in conversation with being a better defender than Herb this season. Hes got a 2.2 dbpm to herbs 1.1, and the same dws. Hes not solid to good, hes elite. You think Willie would have him out there with that bad of an offensive game if he wasn't such an elite defender?
Do some research on advanced analytics before you decide how good a player is. One of the easier things in the league to learn is how to improve a set shot, we fixed lonzos whack shite and Dyson has better form. I'd be very hesitant to trade him unless we got a very good player back
This post was edited on 1/21/24 at 11:48 am
Posted on 1/21/24 at 12:02 pm to whatiknowsofar
quote:
Now who needs their eyes fixed? Dyson is in conversation with being a better defender than Herb this season. Hes got a 2.2 dbpm to herbs 1.1, and the same dws. Hes not solid to good, hes elite. You think Willie would have him out there with that bad of an offensive game if he wasn't such an elite defender?
You can quote all the stats you want but no will agree with you as him being a better defender than Herb this season. And yes I think Willie would have him out there because hes a good defender- hes not elite. Willie always favors defense- its why it took forever to get Hawkins in the rotation. Hes had some impressive games-and other games where he hasn’t been impressive.
quote:
Do some research on advanced analytics before you decide how good a player is. One of the easier things in the league to learn is how to improve a set shot, we fixed lonzos whack shite and Dyson has better form. I'd be very hesitant to trade him unless we got a very good player back
I dont need research to show that a NBA player who misses point blank shots and puts up 0s on the offensive side quite commonly is going to turn around quickly and be some positive offensive player.
Here we go with the we fixed lonzo shot- so we can fix everyone else’s shot. I wouldn’t be hesitant to trade him at all. Just curious who would you trade? You seem to value a lot of players on this team but rarely hear you offer any for trades?
This post was edited on 1/21/24 at 12:09 pm
Posted on 1/21/24 at 12:12 pm to Pels_Yaz
quote:
And yes I think Willie would have him out there because hes a good defender- hes not elite.
You're the only one on this board that thinks he's not elite defensively. He has better defensive numbers than Herb. This isn't an opinion thing. He's proved it on the court. And being in the conversation /=/ is better than Herb.
quote:
so we can fix everyone else’s shot
No one said that. Dyson having good form on his shot leads me to believe it's salvageable.
quote:
You seem to value a lot of players on this team but rarely hear you offer any for trades?
I'm quite alright with trading anyone on the team not named Zion or Hawkins or Herb atm, that may change in the next 40 games. I said I'd be hesitant to trade Dyson unless it was for very good player, most likely he would be a piece in a bigger trade.
Posted on 1/21/24 at 12:13 pm to Pels_Yaz
quote:
I’m sure thats what Hawks are asking but not sure I’m giving this up for a guy who can’t even start. I think hes a solid player but I find it strange that hes never been good enough for hawks to get rid of capella.
His contract is small enough that I don’t mind if he doesn’t start. To me he’s the long term replacement for Larry who is 31 and very injury prone. Okongwu would be in our closing lineup and provides some more rim protection and a better lob threat than Larry. Then I would resign JV to a 1-2 year deal. I would love Allen but I don’t see a world where Cleveland trades him anytime soon
Posted on 1/21/24 at 12:20 pm to whatiknowsofar
quote:
You're the only one on this board that thinks he's not elite defensively. He has better defensive numbers than Herb. This isn't an opinion thing. He's proved it on the court. And being in the conversation /=/ is better than Herb.
We need to take a poll on the board for this. If you think he’s elite and better than Herb on defense- then you think Dyson belongs on the NBA all defense first team over Herb this season? Do you actually believe this and you’re saying people on the board believe this??
quote:
o one said that. Dyson having good form on his shot leads me to believe it's salvageable.
Dude you change your arguments- you literally just said we fixed lonzo shot in reference to fixing Daniels. Yeah he has great form, but he hasn’t improved his shot making. To me makinh shots and showing improvement in that area- makes it salvageable. He hasnt done that.
quote:
I'm quite alright with trading anyone on the team not named Zion or Hawkins or Herb atm, that may change in the next 40 games. I said I'd be hesitant to trade Dyson unless it was for very good player, most likely he would be a piece in a bigger trade.
Your ok trading CJ or Trey? Interesting. I agree Dyson would likely be in a trade for a better player. Individually he wouldn’t net us much.
This post was edited on 1/21/24 at 12:23 pm
Posted on 1/21/24 at 12:21 pm to Balsamic_duck
Cleveland would trade Allen, but it would cost us Herb and JV (JV to a 3rd team)
Cleveland is in desperate need for a defensive wing player, and our interest in Allen shows that we will likely be trading one of our wings if it does happen.
Cleveland is in desperate need for a defensive wing player, and our interest in Allen shows that we will likely be trading one of our wings if it does happen.
Posted on 1/21/24 at 12:21 pm to Balsamic_duck
quote:
His contract is small enough that I don’t mind if he doesn’t start. To me he’s the long term replacement for Larry who is 31 and very injury prone. Okongwu would be in our closing lineup and provides some more rim protection and a better lob threat than Larry. Then I would resign JV to a 1-2 year deal. I would love Allen but I don’t see a world where Cleveland trades him anytime soon
I like this idea especially if we resign JV. I just worry if this team would do that especially regarding how we value Nances leadership. But I like what your saying in regards to replacing Nances production.
Posted on 1/21/24 at 12:24 pm to Soggymoss
quote:
Cleveland would trade Allen, but it would cost us Herb and JV (JV to a 3rd team)
The key is can Griff convince Cavs to put Dyson instead of Herb. I mean according to some posters Dyson has better defensive metrics than Herb and is an elite defender.
Posted on 1/21/24 at 12:29 pm to Pels_Yaz
quote:
can Griff convince Cavs to put Dyson instead of Herb
He can, but then we are right back in the tax, which I don’t see us starting that tax line this season.
One problem I could see developing is who has a need for a big man like JV? Maybe Nets? Warriors? I don’t really see many more in the playoff hunt that could use him
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