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Late/undrafted finds and Paul George injury fooled us on Griff
Posted on 3/15/23 at 9:31 am
Posted on 3/15/23 at 9:31 am
But for getting lucky with a couple of late picks, finding Jose, and the Paul George injury screwing the Clippers last year and letting the Pels sneak into the playoff, we likely would’ve already been calling Griff a failure.
I liked the CJ/Larry pickups at the deadline, but the reality is most of his moves have been questionable and some have been downright disastrous.
The injury thing is real, but the (mis)management of the team’s draft capital and poor development of the roster’s supporting cast is also real.
Willy Green deserves some heat for his lineups and lack of tactical skills, but Griff has done less with more for a while now.
The stars, when healthy, are good enough to win big, but we have clearly seen that the overall roster is so poorly constructed and fragile that it rapidly becomes one of the worst in the league if anyone is missing. That’s 100% on Griff.
Failing to get a backup for a star player that has missed 75% of his games is gross negligence and reasonable cause for firing him all by itself.
I liked the CJ/Larry pickups at the deadline, but the reality is most of his moves have been questionable and some have been downright disastrous.
The injury thing is real, but the (mis)management of the team’s draft capital and poor development of the roster’s supporting cast is also real.
Willy Green deserves some heat for his lineups and lack of tactical skills, but Griff has done less with more for a while now.
The stars, when healthy, are good enough to win big, but we have clearly seen that the overall roster is so poorly constructed and fragile that it rapidly becomes one of the worst in the league if anyone is missing. That’s 100% on Griff.
Failing to get a backup for a star player that has missed 75% of his games is gross negligence and reasonable cause for firing him all by itself.
Posted on 3/15/23 at 9:38 am to BamaPelican
quote:
Failing to get a backup for a star player that has missed 75% of his games is gross negligence and reasonable cause for firing him all by itself.
What position do people believe that 6'7 Larry Nance plays?
Posted on 3/15/23 at 9:38 am to BamaPelican
I’ve been on Griffs arse since he made the stupid Adams trade. Then to see him pass on one of Garlsnd/Hunter and Haliburton if he dropped that year really told me all I needed to know. And it still pisses me off he passed on trading Ball for Lauri not once but twice.
Can’t help that Zion is hurt all the time but it’s hard to think of a GM that was handed an absolute pot of gold to start a regime and screwed it up so bad.
Can’t help that Zion is hurt all the time but it’s hard to think of a GM that was handed an absolute pot of gold to start a regime and screwed it up so bad.
This post was edited on 3/15/23 at 9:39 am
Posted on 3/15/23 at 9:42 am to BamaPelican
Griff continues to show he doesn't understand modern bigs and floor spacing.
I love Dyson but in hindsight, he was not what this roster needed. Another defender who can't shoot.
Griff has fricked up just about every year except last year and he tried his best to but got bailed out by Lowry/Dinwiddie/Hardaway (who actually would help this team).
Year 1 - Grade C: Makes outstanding trade for AD but then... Favors, Jax, Naw, keeps Al
Year 2 - Grade F-: Adams, Bledsoe, Hires Stan draft Kira
Year 3- Grade B-: Gets 0 for Lonzo but hits on Herb, Trey and Jose, makes good trade for Nance/CJ, hires Willie, gets raped on Graham trade. Brings in Jonas. swings and whiffs on overrated old PGs or this is also an F.
Year 4 - Grade F: Extends CJ unnecessarily. Drafts Dyson while talented but a questionable fit. And basically does nothing else. No added shooters, no athletic rim protector. Gets off an earlier mistake in Graham but doesn't improve roster at all.
I love Dyson but in hindsight, he was not what this roster needed. Another defender who can't shoot.
Griff has fricked up just about every year except last year and he tried his best to but got bailed out by Lowry/Dinwiddie/Hardaway (who actually would help this team).
Year 1 - Grade C: Makes outstanding trade for AD but then... Favors, Jax, Naw, keeps Al
Year 2 - Grade F-: Adams, Bledsoe, Hires Stan draft Kira
Year 3- Grade B-: Gets 0 for Lonzo but hits on Herb, Trey and Jose, makes good trade for Nance/CJ, hires Willie, gets raped on Graham trade. Brings in Jonas. swings and whiffs on overrated old PGs or this is also an F.
Year 4 - Grade F: Extends CJ unnecessarily. Drafts Dyson while talented but a questionable fit. And basically does nothing else. No added shooters, no athletic rim protector. Gets off an earlier mistake in Graham but doesn't improve roster at all.
Posted on 3/15/23 at 9:44 am to BamaPelican
I’m still confused about the deadline. Team is sinking, you have people asking to be traded off the team and all you do is trade some second round picks for Josh Richardson.
They didn’t have to get desperate and trade for OG, but at least try to shake things up in some way. You can tell the culture is getting bad and that could have been fixed.
They didn’t have to get desperate and trade for OG, but at least try to shake things up in some way. You can tell the culture is getting bad and that could have been fixed.
Posted on 3/15/23 at 9:45 am to Tigerfan14
OG was another stupid idea by Griff.
He wastes time going for homeruns instead of incremental moves that help a team win.
OG would be a disaster here imo.
He wastes time going for homeruns instead of incremental moves that help a team win.
OG would be a disaster here imo.
Posted on 3/15/23 at 9:54 am to brmark70816
quote:
What position do people believe that 6'7 Larry Nance plays?
Nance has been the 6'7 backup 5 all year.
*And Pels supposedly have a 6'11 backup 4 but they don't play him .... go figure
This post was edited on 3/15/23 at 9:57 am
Posted on 3/15/23 at 9:58 am to ghost2most
quote:
OG would be a disaster here imo.
Agreed. He’s a good player and would have helped but not for what he would have cost us.
This post was edited on 3/15/23 at 9:58 am
Posted on 3/15/23 at 10:01 am to BamaPelican
quote:
the (mis)management of the team’s draft capital and poor development of the roster’s supporting cast is also real.
This is the biggest issue. NAW, Jax, sending out 1sts for JV and Graham, sending 2nds (not big issue but telling) to get rid of Graham.
The fricker squandered so much of our draft capital.
Posted on 3/15/23 at 10:06 am to ghost2most
quote:
OG was another stupid idea by Griff. He wastes time going for homeruns instead of incremental moves that help a team win.
OG isn’t a bad player, but he is a solution to a different problem than the ones the Pels have, which is why that never made sense (in addition to the reported asking price).
The only way OG made sense is if the Pels were going to play him at the 4, otherwise you are taking one of CJ/BI/Trey out of the lineup. Maybe that was the plan, since he is a good bit heavier than any of our other SFs, but if so why not have a backup plan in case OG wasn’t available for a reasonable cost? Last time I checked, having zero alternatives was not the ideal negotiation strategy.
This post was edited on 3/15/23 at 10:08 am
Posted on 3/15/23 at 10:06 am to BamaPelican
OKC is passing us up just by drafting and developing their players organically. They aren't rushing their rebuild while we squandered it from day 1.
We jumped the gun by going with a bunch of vets and stunted our rookies/young players development. Guys like Hayes, Kira, and now Dyson are not getting the time and freedom they need to find their place on the team.
Now we're pretty much in a situation where the timeline to develop these guys is non-existent due to the pressure to win. We've wasted too much time and now we have to keep doubling down in expense of development.
We jumped the gun by going with a bunch of vets and stunted our rookies/young players development. Guys like Hayes, Kira, and now Dyson are not getting the time and freedom they need to find their place on the team.
Now we're pretty much in a situation where the timeline to develop these guys is non-existent due to the pressure to win. We've wasted too much time and now we have to keep doubling down in expense of development.
Posted on 3/15/23 at 10:16 am to BamaPelican
quote:
Failing to get a backup for a star player that has missed 75% of his games is gross negligence and reasonable cause for firing him all by itself.
Zion is 1 of 1…
Posted on 3/15/23 at 10:19 am to ghost2most
Hold Up - we have people on this board still supporting Griffin.
Criticized Griffin and response was his use of all the resources he took over gives us a current roster that is one of the best in the NBA "WHEN" Zion plays.
Criticized Griffin and response was his use of all the resources he took over gives us a current roster that is one of the best in the NBA "WHEN" Zion plays.
Posted on 3/15/23 at 10:27 am to supe12sta12z
Biggest issue in top of that has been awful coaching hires completely ignoring what this team needed. This isn’t the Bulls or Lakers where you have a talented team of vets with one young player that needs someone to motivate and keep egos in check. It is a team full of very young players that needs developers for their talent.
Instead, they hired a cheerleader with almost no use as an X’s and O’s guy and green didn’t hire anyone to support in that role.
They let the run last year make them believe they were close, but given the health histories of so many of their players, it was stupid.
Griff is the new Danny Ainge wasting a war chest because of his ego and insistance on trying to make a big splash and overpaying.
Instead, they hired a cheerleader with almost no use as an X’s and O’s guy and green didn’t hire anyone to support in that role.
They let the run last year make them believe they were close, but given the health histories of so many of their players, it was stupid.
Griff is the new Danny Ainge wasting a war chest because of his ego and insistance on trying to make a big splash and overpaying.
Posted on 3/15/23 at 10:49 am to supe12sta12z
quote:
We jumped the gun by going with a bunch of vets and stunted our rookies/young players development.
This. Wilder still is that Pels have had opportunities to get them time, due to injuries, and still have not got them adequate court time. You'll now essentially have assets that you've possibly misjudged their intrinsic value and definitely don't know their market value and will likely release or trade them off on the cheap.
Pels have leaned in on the vets, supposedly in an attempt to lock in their playoff position, but they have not produce the sufficient wins and actually have resulted in backsliding. What are we doing here?
After last nights debacle, changes are are for sure in order, however Pels will likely stay the broken course. I am not saying that Hayes, Kira, or Dyson are saviors however one of Coach Green's tenants 'COMPETITION' has been violated with these players.
Posted on 3/15/23 at 11:50 am to ghost2most
quote:
Year 1 - Grade C: Makes outstanding trade for AD but then... Favors, Jax, Naw, keeps Al
Fair, the trade was robbery IMHO.
quote:
Year 2 - Grade F-: Adams, Bledsoe, Hires Stan draft Kira
I'd give it a C or D, the adams/bledsoe part were bad. Holiday trade was smart.
I like Kira's potential but the obvious pick would have been Haliburton. Issue is trading is hard to do, but we could have done it considering it wasn't a top 5 pick. (Phoenix). But that's hindsight.
Maxey wouldn't have been the pick either, considering his poor college play. I think the answer was Cole Anthony, but that's all bad options too.
quote:
Year 3- Grade B-: Gets 0 for Lonzo but hits on Herb, Trey and Jose, makes good trade for Nance/CJ, hires Willie, gets raped on Graham trade. Brings in Jonas. swings and whiffs on overrated old PGs or this is also an F.
He gets a B. Hindsight aside, we should have gotten more for Lonzo. Graham part was smart at the time --- we desperately needed a shooter + facilitator, we were fooled. The B part is also because of Lauri. Draft was A+++++
quote:
Year 4 - Grade F: Extends CJ unnecessarily. Drafts Dyson while talented but a questionable fit. And basically does nothing else. No added shooters, no athletic rim protector. Gets off an earlier mistake in Graham but doesn't improve roster at all.
Its a C. You needed to show Zion you're committed, so signing CJ was necessary. The unnecessary part was signing Nance to a 2/22mil extension. He doesn't fit what you need in a backup big man. and he's injury prone.
Dyson pick is about potential, he stayed put and took the highest potential (which is what we bitched about Garland). Give it 3 years and then if he doesn't, then we can bitch.
Lack of adding shooters and a bad deadline really annoys me though.
Posted on 3/15/23 at 12:04 pm to ghost2most
quote:from the outside looking in it does seem like he only hones in on one player and when it usually fails he scrambles and makes a bad desperate move
He wastes time going for homeruns instead of incremental moves that help a team win.
Posted on 3/15/23 at 12:26 pm to brmark70816
quote:Splits time between PF and C
What position do people believe that 6'7 Larry Nance plays?
Posted on 3/15/23 at 12:32 pm to shel311
quote:
Splits time between PF and C
Don't want to quibble Shel but Nance has spent very little time if any at the 4. He with Val, Hayes or Billy is near non-existent.
*This is one of the head-scratchers and believe its led to Nance injuries ... banging with 5s
This post was edited on 3/15/23 at 12:34 pm
Posted on 3/15/23 at 1:04 pm to ghost2most
I agree with all but
I would have preferred not to trade back, but I actually think Hayes could be a contributor. He's been more good than bad this year, and honestly it's on Willie that he hasn't taken the next step. He still gets a little loss on defense, but he's been great at running the floor, pick and rolls, and has gotten some great help side blocks and rebounds. He may not be a full time starting C in the NBA which he should be based on draft position, but he isn't useless.
quote:
Year 1 - Grade C: Makes outstanding trade for AD but then... Favors, Jax, Naw, keeps Al
I would have preferred not to trade back, but I actually think Hayes could be a contributor. He's been more good than bad this year, and honestly it's on Willie that he hasn't taken the next step. He still gets a little loss on defense, but he's been great at running the floor, pick and rolls, and has gotten some great help side blocks and rebounds. He may not be a full time starting C in the NBA which he should be based on draft position, but he isn't useless.
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