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re: How does the roster improve with ONLY major trades? (old thread remix)
Posted on 9/12/20 at 10:34 am to brmark70816
Posted on 9/12/20 at 10:34 am to brmark70816
quote:
There has to be some hesitation about maxing Ingram, since it hasn't happened yet.
Free agency hasn’t started yet. He wasn’t offered the max extension last off season because he was coming off of a serious injury and they wanted to make sure that he was 100%.
Also, Hart isn’t a free agent until next off season.
0
Posted on 9/12/20 at 10:41 am to TigerinATL
quote:
The problem with Jrue for McCollum is it creates as many holes as it fills. If you’re going to build a defense with defenders as bad as CJ and BI you need a good rim protecting big, an All NBAish level defender on the wing, and Zion needs to become really good on defense.
A team with Jrue, Lonzo, and Favors should have theoretically been a good defensive team, but the offense and system was so dogshit that the team was ultimately bad defensively. A good offense (less turnovers creating fast breaks for the opposing team), should help out the team on the defensive side of the ball.
Posted on 9/12/20 at 11:44 am to Epic Cajun
Better offensive possessions this year should definitely help with defense and transitions. I also don't exactly see BI or Zion digressing defensively so we should get somewhat of a boost.
I have to agree with ATL about the defensive help if we were to get CJ. We already need a solid wing defender and a big man down low. So without Jrue these things are only going to be more needed. Also Favors is a solid defender but its like a SG guarding a SF 60% of the time. He gets bullied by the top half of the NBA Cs.
I have to agree with ATL about the defensive help if we were to get CJ. We already need a solid wing defender and a big man down low. So without Jrue these things are only going to be more needed. Also Favors is a solid defender but its like a SG guarding a SF 60% of the time. He gets bullied by the top half of the NBA Cs.
Posted on 9/12/20 at 3:40 pm to brmark70816
quote:You mean because it is not allowed by rule yet? The current season has not ended yet.
There has to be some hesitation about maxing Ingram, since it hasn't happened yet.
Posted on 9/12/20 at 7:08 pm to brmark70816
quote:lol
There has to be some hesitation about maxing Ingram, since it hasn't happened yet
quote:I'm sure there are. Unless he takes the 1 year qualifying offer, we'll have the final say in where he plays.
There are a ton of teams in the East that would love Ingram.
quote:tenure
Plus he has only been here a year. Should be really be the highest paid player on the team?
Posted on 9/12/20 at 8:12 pm to shel311
Revisionist history is fun. We traded for Ingram last July, by Griffin. They had 4 months to sign an extension, but the Pelicans never offered anything. The "concern" was supposed to be the blood clot. Which should still be a massive concern. Now that Ingram is an all star teams are going to pounce on him. But to act like the team hasn't dragged their feet on this is dumb.
This is all indicative of how the team handles contracts. They have a disturbing habit of letting guys hit FA and letting the "market" determine their value. They force guys to stay or way overpay. It pisses players off. Ingram was left dangling and still has no guarantees. He's not happy about not getting the extension. The team is still going to make him field offers and prove he can get another team to bite. There are going to be sour feelings. Its Eric Gordon all over again, except this time we had the chance to take care of this before the season..
This is all indicative of how the team handles contracts. They have a disturbing habit of letting guys hit FA and letting the "market" determine their value. They force guys to stay or way overpay. It pisses players off. Ingram was left dangling and still has no guarantees. He's not happy about not getting the extension. The team is still going to make him field offers and prove he can get another team to bite. There are going to be sour feelings. Its Eric Gordon all over again, except this time we had the chance to take care of this before the season..
Posted on 9/12/20 at 9:18 pm to brmark70816
This is stupid and untrue. The FO will max Ingram as soon as they're allowed to offer the deal. This isn't the same FO as the one you're complaining about and there's no bad blood with BI. Stop making shite up.
I'm curious what the Heat would give up for Jrue. I am fine trading Jrue, I just want guys that fit our timeline better.
I've been playing around with a 4 team trade on the trade machine I like, where Jrue goes to Miami and we get Nunn and Robinson. They keep the two young players they care about the most in Bam and Herro and we get two very talented and young backcourt players that fit our timeline and roster.
Then we could trade Lonzo for something like 7+ D.Rose and take someone like Deni or Vassel at 7. Nesmith or Lewis at 13.
Trade JJ as well, although I dont know for what. I'm not a huge Levert fan with his injury history.
I'm curious what the Heat would give up for Jrue. I am fine trading Jrue, I just want guys that fit our timeline better.
I've been playing around with a 4 team trade on the trade machine I like, where Jrue goes to Miami and we get Nunn and Robinson. They keep the two young players they care about the most in Bam and Herro and we get two very talented and young backcourt players that fit our timeline and roster.
Then we could trade Lonzo for something like 7+ D.Rose and take someone like Deni or Vassel at 7. Nesmith or Lewis at 13.
Trade JJ as well, although I dont know for what. I'm not a huge Levert fan with his injury history.
Posted on 9/12/20 at 10:42 pm to brmark70816
quote:Do you even follow this team or just show up with stuff like this? Do your research and complain about things with at least some truthful statements.
Revisionist history is fun. We traded for Ingram last July, by Griffin. They had 4 months to sign an extension, but the Pelicans never offered anything. The "concern" was supposed to be the blood clot. Which should still be a massive concern. Now that Ingram is an all star teams are going to pounce on him. But to act like the team hasn't dragged their feet on this is dumb.
This is all indicative of how the team handles contracts. They have a disturbing habit of letting guys hit FA and letting the "market" determine their value. They force guys to stay or way overpay. It pisses players off. Ingram was left dangling and still has no guarantees. He's not happy about not getting the extension. The team is still going to make him field offers and prove he can get another team to bite. There are going to be sour feelings. Its Eric Gordon all over again, except this time we had the chance to take care of this before the season..
Posted on 9/12/20 at 10:45 pm to NOSHAU
You do realize that brmark is a troll right?
He’s a REALLY good one imo. One of the best.
He’s a REALLY good one imo. One of the best.
Posted on 9/12/20 at 10:45 pm to NOSHAU
For shits and giggles
What about a HardLn trade? Considering HOU launches a nuke on itself.
Zo
HardLn
BI
Zion
(Some Center)
IF HardLn can not be a ballhog we have two great shooters with BI and HardLn, and still get to keep Zion's ball launcher (Zo).
What about a HardLn trade? Considering HOU launches a nuke on itself.
Zo
HardLn
BI
Zion
(Some Center)
IF HardLn can not be a ballhog we have two great shooters with BI and HardLn, and still get to keep Zion's ball launcher (Zo).
Posted on 9/12/20 at 10:48 pm to 50_Tiger
BI and Zion need the ball. The last thing we need is someone else who has to have the ball and is inefficient in the process.
Posted on 9/12/20 at 11:01 pm to NOSHAU
Yeah, I'm crazy and off the rails. But the next poster is throwing out trades for James Harden.
So, when they are able, they are giving Ingram the proper 5 year max with all the proper escalators, just like Simmons got. Right? That is what everybody is saying.. They could have done a deal and got him for Hield level money. Nobody else sees what a massive F up that is by the FO or how it can go so horribly wrong this offseason?
So, when they are able, they are giving Ingram the proper 5 year max with all the proper escalators, just like Simmons got. Right? That is what everybody is saying.. They could have done a deal and got him for Hield level money. Nobody else sees what a massive F up that is by the FO or how it can go so horribly wrong this offseason?
Posted on 9/12/20 at 11:05 pm to brmark70816
You’re making a huge assumption that Ingram and his agent would have accepted a low ball offer last October knowing how great he played the prior season right before his season was cut short.
Good job trying to convince yourself though.
Good job trying to convince yourself though.
Posted on 9/12/20 at 11:27 pm to brmark70816
#1: No we couldn't have made a deal because BI wasn't going to sign it when he could get a max. If we don't give it to him you think another team wouldn't? Why would he settle for buddy hield money?
#2: What frick up did the FO have? Davis asked to be traded and BI, Lonzo, Hart, + picks was the best return. We will now take those assets and play it out for the next few years.
#3: What value do we lose by signing him? If he walks then we have no starting SF and cap space that a free agent wouldn't want. We can at least trade him for future assets at worse case scenario sir.
I personally appreciate and enjoy trolls but also welcome you to a competent conversation if you'd like. Might not be your style.
#2: What frick up did the FO have? Davis asked to be traded and BI, Lonzo, Hart, + picks was the best return. We will now take those assets and play it out for the next few years.
#3: What value do we lose by signing him? If he walks then we have no starting SF and cap space that a free agent wouldn't want. We can at least trade him for future assets at worse case scenario sir.
I personally appreciate and enjoy trolls but also welcome you to a competent conversation if you'd like. Might not be your style.
Posted on 9/13/20 at 8:12 am to Dantheman504
quote:
I personally appreciate and enjoy trolls but also welcome you to a competent conversation if you'd like. Might not be your style.
Have I not responded reasonably to each question? I am happy to talk and go back and forth.
1. We didn't negotiate at all with him in those 4 months we had the opportunity. You can go back and see that. They didn't offer him Hield level money (4/100), which was a slight step down from a max. Ingram says he wouldn't have taken it. But they could have at least tried.
2. The frick up is letting him play out last season on a prove it basis. Now instead of having him secured for less money (4y/100Mish), they are going to have to pay him (5y/150+). If they go lower or force him to (as a RFA), he is going to be disgruntled. Plus now he isn't going to have a choice, which he might have thought he would have since we wouldn't give him a deal before.
3. You can't not sign him now. I never said anything like that. We can't lose the asset. But negotiations are tricky, especially with this type of history (with him and the FO). He is going to want the biggest max with all of the bells and whistles. There is a lot that can go wrong and maybe Ingram sours and wants to go somewhere else. I am just preparing for that possibility and what we can get if we have to move him. Make sense?
Posted on 9/13/20 at 1:32 pm to brmark70816
So once again if we sign BI and he wants to go somewhere else then we trade him and take what we can get.
Also why would he want to leave when he is about to be our #1 max player on the roster???
And once again WE HAD NO OPPORTUNITY, HE WOULDN'T SIGN A DEAL BEFORE HE COULD BE MAXED. and I don't blame him...
Do you not get that? No team would have signed him because he would have waited to get paid.
Did someone hurt you? You are trying to pull every worst case scenario about him out of your arse. He played very good this year and obviously still has a lot of room to grow. Give him a damn chance lawd.
Also why would he want to leave when he is about to be our #1 max player on the roster???
And once again WE HAD NO OPPORTUNITY, HE WOULDN'T SIGN A DEAL BEFORE HE COULD BE MAXED. and I don't blame him...
Do you not get that? No team would have signed him because he would have waited to get paid.
Did someone hurt you? You are trying to pull every worst case scenario about him out of your arse. He played very good this year and obviously still has a lot of room to grow. Give him a damn chance lawd.
Posted on 9/13/20 at 3:24 pm to Dantheman504
So we could not have maxed him anytime from July to October of last year?
Posted on 9/13/20 at 4:45 pm to brmark70816
Your 1 sentence response shows you understand now. Good convo sir
Posted on 9/13/20 at 4:49 pm to Dantheman504
quote:
Your 1 sentence response shows you understand now. Good convo sir
So you are admitting that you lied and just got called out. Great way of building credibility..
Posted on 9/13/20 at 5:12 pm to brmark70816
quote:
We didn't negotiate at all with him in those 4 months we had the opportunity. You can go back and see that. They didn't offer him Hield level money (4/100), which was a slight step down from a max. Ingram says he wouldn't have taken it. But they could have at least tried.
Ingram talked about this at one point, as did Griffin. Ingram seen Murray,Brown etc get max deals and he knew he wouldn't settle for less, but he also stated he understands the position Griff is in not having seen him with this team along with not having seen him after what could have been a career ending injury. That's why there were no negotiations, Griff wasn't going to insult Ingram by lowballing, but he also wouldn't just hand him a 5 year max not knowing if the clot would come back.
quote:
The frick up is letting him play out last season on a prove it basis. Now instead of having him secured for less money (4y/100Mish), they are going to have to pay him (5y/150+). If they go lower or force him to (as a RFA), he is going to be disgruntled. Plus now he isn't going to have a choice, which he might have thought he would have since we wouldn't give him a deal before.
They were always going to have to pay him the 5 year 25% max, that was never a question on Griff nor Ingram's mind, the question was could he come back and play before committing that kind of money to him. You don't just hand a guy that not knowing if he can even ever play again.
quote:
You can't not sign him now. I never said anything like that. We can't lose the asset. But negotiations are tricky, especially with this type of history (with him and the FO). He is going to want the biggest max with all of the bells and whistles.
No, these negotiations are going to be pretty straightforward.
Griff: Hey Brandon, I have in my hand a new contract for 5 year 170 million (depending on cap) dollar contract, that's the full 25% with 8% raises that we can offer you and more than you can get with any other team. You proved you can stay healthy and you more than deserve it. Now let's go get a ring.
BI: Thanks Dave, I'll come in and sign it.
This post was edited on 9/13/20 at 5:47 pm
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