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Posted on 8/21/20 at 9:34 am to Baron
The west is absolutely loaded and there is pretty much a 0% chance Minnesota makes the playoffs next season, so you are looking at what is likely a high lottery pick, along with having our own pick (likely lottery also).
Maybe we get lucky and end up with #1 and take Jalen Green to be the PG of the future next to Zion and BI, and you likely have 3 superstar players for 10+ years.
I make the trade simply for that chance.
Maybe we get lucky and end up with #1 and take Jalen Green to be the PG of the future next to Zion and BI, and you likely have 3 superstar players for 10+ years.
I make the trade simply for that chance.
Posted on 8/21/20 at 9:36 am to shel311
quote:
but I still view him/his contract as a negative value altogether
This really is the key. But I’d suggest that, instead of saying it’s a negative now, we need to decide if it will be a negative come 2023 whenever it’s 33m. Do we think the Pels can rehab Wiggins enough that it becomes at least a net neutral the year before he expires so that his contract can be used to match salaries in a trade for a star without hurting us? Do we think we can use that cap space for a better purpose of taking on other assets or salary dumps? Do we think that Jrue will sign an extension + will Jrue keep his value at that new extension number? Idk the answers to those questions without giving it a lot more thought, but that to me seems to be the crux of the problem.
Posted on 8/21/20 at 9:40 am to Baron
I'm not trying to talk anyone into Wiggins. His contract is fricking TRASH. Epic, awful trash.
Just saying IF we do get value to take him on, he did play pretty darn well at the 2 (not commensurate with his contract, but well), and would be expiring around the time of Zion's first big contract.
Just saying IF we do get value to take him on, he did play pretty darn well at the 2 (not commensurate with his contract, but well), and would be expiring around the time of Zion's first big contract.
Posted on 8/21/20 at 9:41 am to death valley driver
I played around with the trade machine and came up with a trade that absolutely will not happen, and I'm not exactly sure I would want it as I've said before I don't think quite as highly of Beal as others do. But to get a cost controlled all star and a center that fits with Zion i would be intrigued. Side note, it's harder than it looks to balance that shite out lol.
Pels Get
Bradley Beal
Myles Turner
Taj Gibson
Elfrid Peyton
Warriors Get
JJ Reddik
Jrue Holiday
Wizards Get
Darius Miller
Kevin Looney
GS 2020 1st
Minnesota 2021 1st
Pelicans 2020 1st
Wizards 2020 2nd
Pacers get
Bobby Portis
Jaxon Hayes
Knicks 2020 1st
Dallas 2021 1st
GS 2023 1st
Cleveland 2021 2nd
Wizards 2021 2nd
Knicks get
Andrew Wiggins
Lonzo Ball
LINK
downvote away lol
Pels Get
Bradley Beal
Myles Turner
Taj Gibson
Elfrid Peyton
Warriors Get
JJ Reddik
Jrue Holiday
Wizards Get
Darius Miller
Kevin Looney
GS 2020 1st
Minnesota 2021 1st
Pelicans 2020 1st
Wizards 2020 2nd
Pacers get
Bobby Portis
Jaxon Hayes
Knicks 2020 1st
Dallas 2021 1st
GS 2023 1st
Cleveland 2021 2nd
Wizards 2021 2nd
Knicks get
Andrew Wiggins
Lonzo Ball
LINK
downvote away lol
Posted on 8/21/20 at 9:46 am to Fun Bunch
quote:
I'm not trying to talk anyone into Wiggins. His contract is fricking TRASH. Epic, awful trash.
And that was before the Covid Cap Contraction (CCC)
Somehow it's even worse now
Posted on 8/21/20 at 9:46 am to Soggymoss
Oh I agree with you that the chance Minnesota makes the playoffs next year is next to 0. But considering the point I was making about their draft position, I think we either disagree on how high the pick will actually be (which is fine). Just think we need to be careful not to overvalue the Minny pick as I think it’s much more likely that the pick falls in the 8-14 range than the 1-6 range.
So would you trade Jrue for the number 2 this year, the number 9-10 next year, and Wiggins? I know we disagree on the premise, but that’s the way I look at it.
So would you trade Jrue for the number 2 this year, the number 9-10 next year, and Wiggins? I know we disagree on the premise, but that’s the way I look at it.
Posted on 8/21/20 at 9:46 am to Galactic Inquisitor
quote:
You can't overstate how ugly that contract is.
yeah but the whole point of being flexible is to be able to absorb something like that
Wiggins is vastly overpaid but he isn't terrible as a player, so it's not like we'd be buying him out
Posted on 8/21/20 at 9:48 am to death valley driver
I don’t think I want 1.2 in this draft
So if I’m shopping jrue, it’ll be to a team in the back end of the top 10, and maybe I can get a better package
So if I’m shopping jrue, it’ll be to a team in the back end of the top 10, and maybe I can get a better package
Posted on 8/21/20 at 9:49 am to SlowFlowPro
I don't think the Warriors will be able to give away Wiggins with the first pick because of what the salary cap is about to do.
Posted on 8/21/20 at 9:51 am to death valley driver
You have to absolutely love someone at #2 to do this deal.
Posted on 8/21/20 at 9:53 am to saints5021
quote:
because of what the salary cap is about to do.
that is also a fair point
i have to think if the cap does shrink, players' contracts will also shrink. i mean ones already signed. if not, the NBAPA is so fricked
Wiggins is a REALLY extreme example of this, but we're going to have to take on shite contracts to get assets. that's just how it works for small market teams in the NBA
Posted on 8/21/20 at 9:53 am to Fun Bunch
quote:
I'm not trying to talk anyone into Wiggins. His contract is fricking TRASH. Epic, awful trash.
Haha, oh we are on the same page with that. It’s why I asked if we thought we could turn him into a neutral asset by his expiring year. If not, then we are losing extra value because we are essentially losing the space that we could use as a dumping ground for other contracts or to be that 3rd facilitator team that gets thrown bones to make trades work. If the FO views Wiggins as an anchor for the next three years (which I think they do), I’d ask for more from GSW or just decline.
Posted on 8/21/20 at 10:01 am to Baron
I'd definitely go for that package, but we have to find a way to send Wiggins out or i would be very hesitant to take it. Would be nice if we could move Lonzo as well and really rebuild the team surrounding Zion/Ingram with shooters.
Right now Jrue is the only guy that can play the pick and roll with Zion/Hayes and throw alley oops or get to the goal. NAW is working on that, but no one else can do that, and we really need a lead guard that can do that. That's why i think bringing in CP3 would do wonders to this team, but i honestly don't think OKC is interested in trading him.
What if we could take that GSW deal, but send Wiggins to Detroit for Griffin?
Obviously he doesn't fit our timeline, but you have to have veterans, and i think he'd fit will with Zion down low. You look at having him like Philly did with Horford and OKC is with CP3. Yeah they are being overpaid, but you've got a long of young talent on cheap contracts and they are there to mentor until their time is up.
Right now Jrue is the only guy that can play the pick and roll with Zion/Hayes and throw alley oops or get to the goal. NAW is working on that, but no one else can do that, and we really need a lead guard that can do that. That's why i think bringing in CP3 would do wonders to this team, but i honestly don't think OKC is interested in trading him.
What if we could take that GSW deal, but send Wiggins to Detroit for Griffin?
Obviously he doesn't fit our timeline, but you have to have veterans, and i think he'd fit will with Zion down low. You look at having him like Philly did with Horford and OKC is with CP3. Yeah they are being overpaid, but you've got a long of young talent on cheap contracts and they are there to mentor until their time is up.
Posted on 8/21/20 at 10:05 am to TeddyPadillac
I think Griffin is done. He might be a worse value and harder contract to move than Wiggins.
There are other/easier ways to add vet leadership, including adding Horford, who you mentioned (I don’t see a world where philly doesn’t try everything in their power to trade him this offseason). The only issue is we have to decide what path we want to take first. Are we trying to go for the playoffs and help establish a winning mindset with the young players? Are we doing a soft rebuild to build more assets and wait till the west gets a little easier (which is what Hollinger is arguing for)? Or are we in full on tank mode to swing for the fences on trying to draft another star?
Griffin has made it clear that we aren’t doing option 3 because we have future assets already in the war chest and you don’t want to poison your young guys with a losing mindset. So that only leaves options 1 and 2. I like option 2, but the number one rule for small market teams is to never take a negative contract for more than 1 year. With our inability to sway big time free agents, we just can’t afford anchor contracts. That’s my biggest hesitation with the Wiggins proposal, his contract is a one-off trade where you are essentially stuck with it until at least the trade deadline of the last year. I think we can trade Jrue for less value now, but keep flipping those assets where we come out ahead of the Wiggins deal in 3 years. Plus we keep our powder dry and are flexible to strike if an unexpected opportunity arises
There are other/easier ways to add vet leadership, including adding Horford, who you mentioned (I don’t see a world where philly doesn’t try everything in their power to trade him this offseason). The only issue is we have to decide what path we want to take first. Are we trying to go for the playoffs and help establish a winning mindset with the young players? Are we doing a soft rebuild to build more assets and wait till the west gets a little easier (which is what Hollinger is arguing for)? Or are we in full on tank mode to swing for the fences on trying to draft another star?
Griffin has made it clear that we aren’t doing option 3 because we have future assets already in the war chest and you don’t want to poison your young guys with a losing mindset. So that only leaves options 1 and 2. I like option 2, but the number one rule for small market teams is to never take a negative contract for more than 1 year. With our inability to sway big time free agents, we just can’t afford anchor contracts. That’s my biggest hesitation with the Wiggins proposal, his contract is a one-off trade where you are essentially stuck with it until at least the trade deadline of the last year. I think we can trade Jrue for less value now, but keep flipping those assets where we come out ahead of the Wiggins deal in 3 years. Plus we keep our powder dry and are flexible to strike if an unexpected opportunity arises
This post was edited on 8/21/20 at 10:18 am
Posted on 8/21/20 at 10:06 am to Fun Bunch
quote:
I know what the numbers are. Wiggins is a better player than people give him credit for, but his contract is totally outrageous for his level of production. Insane.
I'm just saying that Golden State WILL be coming after Jrue, people just need to get used to the rumors.
I don’t think Wiggins is better than people give him credit for. I think he was given too much credit for being a good player.
Only after Jimmy Butler called his arse out (along with KAT) and punked those two out in practice did the worm turn to show who Wiggins is.
He’s an off ball guy who should be a 3rd to fourth option.
I don’t want him around the younger guys.
& for Wiggins as a talented player, he needs to be around veterans like Steph to bring out the best in him.
Of course hell no to that contract,too.
Posted on 8/21/20 at 10:08 am to death valley driver
Hard no on Wiggins...that contract is untenable.
Pels will definitely be looking at moves like this, though. If we pull the trigger, I'd rather a smaller deal with Zo instead of Jrue.
Plus, we need Redick's shooting.
Pels will definitely be looking at moves like this, though. If we pull the trigger, I'd rather a smaller deal with Zo instead of Jrue.
Plus, we need Redick's shooting.
Posted on 8/21/20 at 10:09 am to OrganizedChaos
People keep talking about the Knicks, are yall forgetting who their new coach is? 
Posted on 8/21/20 at 10:15 am to SlowFlowPro
quote:There's no way in hell the NBAPA would agree to this.
i have to think if the cap does shrink, players' contracts will also shrink. i mean ones already signed
Posted on 8/21/20 at 10:16 am to death valley driver
If Wiggins contract is running out the year we extend Zion, I don't see how his ugly contract is that much of a turn off to us, unless the FO insists on being cheap. I don't want to get rid of Jrue but his timeline doesn't match our young stars. It's going to take 2-3 years for Zion/BI to develop to the level that makes us contenders. In the next three years, you focus on developing Zion/BI, give Wiggins a chance to improve, develop draft picks who I think should be 3&D players, and sign PG's and C's as needed.
By the time we're coming to the Zion extension and him and BI are on maxes, we get rid of Wiggins and have a little flexibility to sign veteran role players who can see the potential of our team.
Biggest thing for me is I don't see us sniffing the finals in the next 2-3 years.
By the time we're coming to the Zion extension and him and BI are on maxes, we get rid of Wiggins and have a little flexibility to sign veteran role players who can see the potential of our team.
Biggest thing for me is I don't see us sniffing the finals in the next 2-3 years.
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