9
- My Forums
- Tiger Rant
- LSU Recruiting
- SEC Rant
- Saints Talk
- Pelicans Talk
- More Sports Board
- Fantasy Sports
- Golf Board
- Soccer Board
- O-T Lounge
- Tech Board
- Home/Garden Board
- Outdoor Board
- Health/Fitness Board
- Movie/TV Board
- Book Board
- Music Board
- Political Talk
- Money Talk
- Fark Board
- Gaming Board
- Travel Board
- Food/Drink Board
- Ticket Exchange
- TD Help Board
Customize My Forums- View All Forums
- Show Left Links
- Topic Sort Options
- Trending Topics
- Recent Topics
- Active Topics
Started By
Message
Have Herb and Trey hit a Plateau?
Posted on 1/9/23 at 9:47 am
Posted on 1/9/23 at 9:47 am
Still thrilled with the players they are. It seems as though they haven’t built on the momentum they had at the end of last year.
What am I missing, and what are their ceilings?
What am I missing, and what are their ceilings?
Posted on 1/9/23 at 9:51 am to Safety Blitz
1) Growth isn't linear.
2) Their flaws are more apparent when they are thrust into bigger roles than they should have because the Big 3 aren't healthy.
I will say that I have been pretty disappointed in Trey's defense. I think it will get better in time, but he needs to get stronger and have better footwork/positioning. I guess the positive side of that is those are both things that he should be able to address over the next few years.
2) Their flaws are more apparent when they are thrust into bigger roles than they should have because the Big 3 aren't healthy.
I will say that I have been pretty disappointed in Trey's defense. I think it will get better in time, but he needs to get stronger and have better footwork/positioning. I guess the positive side of that is those are both things that he should be able to address over the next few years.
Posted on 1/9/23 at 9:54 am to TigerinATL
Trey needs Zion and CJ in a bad way
Posted on 1/9/23 at 10:04 am to Safety Blitz
They are halfway through their sophomore seasons. I don't think they have plateau'd
Posted on 1/9/23 at 10:04 am to smoke225
Trey, no ... Herb, yes. Herb is just such a terrible shooter. He needs to go full Bruce Bowen and just spend the entire off season learning to hit a corner 3
Posted on 1/9/23 at 10:05 am to smoke225
And Herb doesn’t? He is the worst scorer on the court right now in most rotations. Without Zion and BI that shows hella. Im not saying Herb needs to be benched either. He had what 5 steals against Dallas?
Posted on 1/9/23 at 10:05 am to Safety Blitz
No.
I think Trey could probably use some work on his ball handling skills so he can be a bit more of a playmaker/create his own shot. Like everyone, he benefits more when Zion is on the floor because he gets more open looks. In the last few games it seems his touches overall have been down. He's still shooting the three at a really good rate, I'm not really sure you can know him for just a few games. I would have like to have seen him be more aggressive these last two games but I just think not being able to create his own shot is holding him back. But I have no reason to think that he has hit a plateau.
Herb has been so bad shooting that it has caused people to forget how good his defense is/criticize every part of his game, which isn't fair. Even with more fouls this year, he still is an all NBA defender. His abysmal offense looks even worse without the stars in the lineup. His shot has been pretty disappointing especially given just how good his looks from three are. I mean he is almost wide open of every shot he takes. He's probably had only a handful of contested three's all year long, ad he's still shooting under 30%. That's bad. So that does alarm me a bit but I mean we need his defense more than his offense so I can live with bad three point shooting as long as he keeps it under three attempts per game. Any shot attempts over that at the rate he is shooting is hurting you, I don't think his offense is necessarily hurting the team right now, because he's still a good cutter and finishes strong at the rim.
I think Trey could probably use some work on his ball handling skills so he can be a bit more of a playmaker/create his own shot. Like everyone, he benefits more when Zion is on the floor because he gets more open looks. In the last few games it seems his touches overall have been down. He's still shooting the three at a really good rate, I'm not really sure you can know him for just a few games. I would have like to have seen him be more aggressive these last two games but I just think not being able to create his own shot is holding him back. But I have no reason to think that he has hit a plateau.
Herb has been so bad shooting that it has caused people to forget how good his defense is/criticize every part of his game, which isn't fair. Even with more fouls this year, he still is an all NBA defender. His abysmal offense looks even worse without the stars in the lineup. His shot has been pretty disappointing especially given just how good his looks from three are. I mean he is almost wide open of every shot he takes. He's probably had only a handful of contested three's all year long, ad he's still shooting under 30%. That's bad. So that does alarm me a bit but I mean we need his defense more than his offense so I can live with bad three point shooting as long as he keeps it under three attempts per game. Any shot attempts over that at the rate he is shooting is hurting you, I don't think his offense is necessarily hurting the team right now, because he's still a good cutter and finishes strong at the rim.
Posted on 1/9/23 at 10:06 am to TigerinATL
quote:
I will say that I have been pretty disappointed in Trey's defense. I think it will get better in time, but he needs to get stronger and have better footwork/positioning.
Biggest issue I see with Trey is his fighting screens. It's not such a big issue until he is primary defender on a ball handler and then they take advantage. Right now he's best when we switch but we struggle doing that with JV and at times with Jose. Starters being down is exposing him some. Long term I think this can be remedied but it's gonna be the thing that gets attacked in the playoffs if he gets matched up with a Booker or a PG3/KL type.
Posted on 1/9/23 at 10:07 am to Safety Blitz
Trey has shown he can improve his offensive game, in that he has the ability to now drive to the basket on occasion and has displayed good touch around the rim.
However his only movies offensively are: catch and shoot somewhat open 3s and drive to basket after pump fake. Both of these opportunities have to be generated by another player drawing attention. That’s good enough most of the time, but if we wants to improve he needs to be able to shoot 3s off screens where he’s not just standing waiting for the ball, get better at cutting, and a tighter handle. After that if he could shoot off the dribble 3s then he’d probably be a fringe all star
However his only movies offensively are: catch and shoot somewhat open 3s and drive to basket after pump fake. Both of these opportunities have to be generated by another player drawing attention. That’s good enough most of the time, but if we wants to improve he needs to be able to shoot 3s off screens where he’s not just standing waiting for the ball, get better at cutting, and a tighter handle. After that if he could shoot off the dribble 3s then he’d probably be a fringe all star
Posted on 1/9/23 at 10:19 am to hassan whiteside
quote:
They are halfway through their sophomore seasons.
Herb is 24, he’s close to maxing out his potential, which is fine. It’s why he was available in the 2nd. Maybe eventually he can knock down open 3s but who knows
Murphy is only 22, there are still flashes of potential there. Needs to find consistency
Posted on 1/9/23 at 10:20 am to Safety Blitz
I don’t think so. This is just a case of young role players trying to figure it out their games when there isn’t a consistent presence on the court.
With everyone out Trey commands more attention from the defense, you heard AD talk about this numerous times in the Dallas game. When everyone is back he will be back to the game that he is comfortable in at this point.
For Herb, a lot of his game in college he was the initiator and that carried a bit into his rookie year. I think he just needs to get comfortable in his role of moving around the court offensively without the ball ready to make plays, if thats cutting or spotting up.
He has shown to be a good cutter but when Zion is in the game that isn’t an easy job to find space.
You just have to give these guys time, I mean they haven't even played a half season together
With everyone out Trey commands more attention from the defense, you heard AD talk about this numerous times in the Dallas game. When everyone is back he will be back to the game that he is comfortable in at this point.
For Herb, a lot of his game in college he was the initiator and that carried a bit into his rookie year. I think he just needs to get comfortable in his role of moving around the court offensively without the ball ready to make plays, if thats cutting or spotting up.
He has shown to be a good cutter but when Zion is in the game that isn’t an easy job to find space.
You just have to give these guys time, I mean they haven't even played a half season together
Posted on 1/9/23 at 10:27 am to MartinVanNostrand
quote:Yea, and in all honesty, if that is all he can do offensively, that's ok if he can shoot the 3 at an elite level.
However his only movies offensively are: catch and shoot somewhat open 3s and drive to basket after pump fake. Both of these opportunities have to be generated by another player drawing attention.
But the "issue" is I think we all see that he does have the potential to do so much more.
But ATL nailed it with the very 1st point in the very 1st reply, growth isn't linear.
I'm not terribly worried about either from a long term perspective.
Posted on 1/9/23 at 10:29 am to Hailstate15
For sure! That goes without saying.
Posted on 1/9/23 at 10:32 am to Hailstate15
quote:He certainly doesn't need to be benched/out of the rotation.
And Herb doesn’t? He is the worst scorer on the court right now in most rotations. Without Zion and BI that shows hella. Im not saying Herb needs to be benched either. He had what 5 steals against Dallas?
But I'm at the point now where I'd be ok with adding a Malik Beasley type if it comes at the expense of someone like Herb or Jose losing some of their minutes. Graham comes out of the rotation entirely, Herb down to 20-22 minutes, Jose down to 16-18 and that opens up probably 20+ minutes for a dude if we were to add someone via trade.
Posted on 1/9/23 at 10:46 am to dirtytigers
quote:
You just have to give these guys time, I mean they haven't even played a half season together
and zion wasnt available to practice.
and now the stars are out.
one can hope herb learns a couple shots this summer but what does he learn now?
Posted on 1/9/23 at 10:54 am to iwyLSUiwy
At this point with Herb he might as well handle the ball, because off ball he’s getting Tony Allen’ed.
So because of regression, Dinks suggestion appears to be needed.
So because of regression, Dinks suggestion appears to be needed.
Posted on 1/9/23 at 11:04 am to Safety Blitz
We're asking them to punch above their weight. Trey has a lot of growth left in his game. He's nowhere near his peak.
Herb's having an awful year shooting from deep. I wouldn't say he plateaued. He's still a potential 12-13ppg guy with 33-35% from deep kind of guy. Kind of like Marcus Smart.
Herb's having an awful year shooting from deep. I wouldn't say he plateaued. He's still a potential 12-13ppg guy with 33-35% from deep kind of guy. Kind of like Marcus Smart.
Posted on 1/9/23 at 11:12 am to TigerinATL
quote:
I will say that I have been pretty disappointed in Trey's defense. I think it will get better in time, but he needs to get stronger and have better footwork/positioning. I guess the positive side of that is those are both things that he should be able to address over the next few years.
I think both Trey and Herb aren't playing up to the level of defense they played last year. Trey in particular kind of rests on his fundamentals a little bit. He's been a little to upright in his stance and I think his slides have become to long. Should be short quick bursts.
We spent so much time talking about the growth spurt he had, but I kind of wonder if that's hampered his onball defense a bit. I remember him being much more fundamentally sound in college and as a rookie.
Posted on 1/9/23 at 11:13 am to saints5021
quote:
Herb is just such a terrible shooter. He needs to go full Bruce Bowen and just spend the entire off season learning to hit a corne
That would be the Pels' last resort, for a guy like Herb. Most teams think you basically have 3 (some think 4) options on how to best use a "limited" player like Herb, based on what you think his best attributes are offensively, relatively speaking of course. All 4 options have their intrinsic pluses and minuses.
It's normal procedure to start with what you perceive to be the best possible option, then work your way down. So you try #1...then when you give up on that being workable you go to #2 etc...The Pels apparently haven't given up on #1...yet. Maybe they will after this year...we'll see.
The further you go down the list from 1-4, the more disadvantages you face for your overall team performance. There are huge disadvantages to going to #4...the Bruce Bowen option...as you call it. Pels might well end up there with Herb...but I think they'll totally try and make one of the first 3 options work with Herb, before going that route.
This post was edited on 1/9/23 at 11:17 am
Posted on 1/9/23 at 11:14 am to ThanosIsADemocrat
quote:
At this point with Herb he might as well handle the ball, because off ball he’s getting Tony Allen’ed.
Shamit posted a play last week where Herb and JV were used in off ball screening action to free up CJ/BI which drew their defenders into action and opened up the lane. Usually when we lack spacing a big part of it is not enough off ball movement. The clip below ends up in a dump off to JV for an easy layup.
quote:
Shamit Dua @FearTheBrown Jan 4
Look at how Herb and Jonas are screening for BI and CJ while the lane is open for Z! I can barely remember them using this kind of config. Keeps the defense occupied and vulnerable!
LINK
Page 1 of 2
Popular
Back to top
Follow TigerDroppings for LSU Football News