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re: First take, klay and draymond for AD
Posted on 6/16/18 at 4:22 pm to brmark70816
Posted on 6/16/18 at 4:22 pm to brmark70816
quote:
No. Green is perhaps the best defender in the league and guards 3-4 positions. Davis is an opportunistic defender that makes spectacular defensive plays. If he was that great of a defender, he would elevate those around him and the Pelicans would be an outstanding defensive team (ala the Warriors). Great defensive players don't play on bad to average defensive teams
To be fair the pels were very good defensively post Boogie injury WITHOUT the continuity that Green enjoys in GSW. I think you could have made this argument pre 17-18 season, but Davis really upped his game this year on that end of the floor. Not saying Green isn’t fantastic, but there’s a reason AD is top 3 for DPOY and made the first team.
To kind of prove the point. Let’s take Cousins. Put him in at the 5 for Davis and Green on the respective teams.
Where do you think Curry/Thompson/Iggy/Durant/Cousins would rank and where do you think Rondo/Holiday/Moore/Niko/Cousins would rank? I’d say GSW still finishes top 10 and the Pels lineup is probably in the mid 20s. It’s hard to compare the two with such a disparity in counterparts.
Edit: we were not a bad-average defensive team in the second part of the year. Green and Davis are both stellar. That’s my point.
This post was edited on 6/16/18 at 4:23 pm
1
Posted on 6/16/18 at 4:44 pm to ShamelessPel
I’m convinced he’s a Boom alter.
Posted on 6/16/18 at 5:12 pm to Epic Cajun
I remember back when he would argue that Brandon Jennings is better than Jrue. Fun times.
Posted on 6/16/18 at 6:28 pm to HickfawJim1
After playing 4 years at MSU, Draymond Green as a 22 year old player in the NBA
2.9 PPG
3.3 RPG
.7 APG
.3 BPG
32.7 FG%
Anthony Davis as a 22 year old in the NBA
24.3 PPG
10.3 RPG
1.9 APG
2 BPG
49% FG
I’m supposed to believe Green is better than AD. They aren’t even in the same discussion
2.9 PPG
3.3 RPG
.7 APG
.3 BPG
32.7 FG%
Anthony Davis as a 22 year old in the NBA
24.3 PPG
10.3 RPG
1.9 APG
2 BPG
49% FG
I’m supposed to believe Green is better than AD. They aren’t even in the same discussion
Posted on 6/16/18 at 6:43 pm to GynoSandberg
It is beyond ludicrous
Posted on 6/16/18 at 7:51 pm to brmark70816
quote:
Green is perhaps the best defender in the league and guards 3-4 positions.
#1. He totally gets to concentrate on the defensive side of the ball.
#2. In the playoffs he should have fouled out by halftime in every game against the Pels.
He is a good defender, but his overall ability’s are exagerrated because of the players around him. He gets the easiest assist in the league and he left absolutely wide open all the time because he is not considered that great of a shooter. He is considered absolutely horrible relative to his elite teammates which gives him wide open uncontested shots.
Iggy is considered an elite defender and they gave him a Finals MVP (eventhough it was bs) because of that perception.
Klay typically guards the elite perimeter players in the league and is considered a great defender.
I would never pay Green huge supermax level money because I wouldn’t trust him to bring it on elite levels on both ends of the floor as the main guy. Jrue Holiday since becoming healthy has proven to be much better than Green as Evil Jrue.
Posted on 6/16/18 at 8:08 pm to GynoSandberg
quote:
I’m supposed to believe Green is better than AD. They aren’t even in the same discussion
You have to be the most obtuse group of sycophant fan boys I have ever witnessed. Not in the same discussion? Green's career is blowing away Davis's, it's not even close anymore. Extrapolate their careers ahead another 6-8 years and it will be even more embarrassing. What honors are you going to point to that Davis will hold over Green? Green is a multi time all star, multi all NBA, former DPOY, Olympian and by the time he retires will probably have 5-6 Championship rings. Your only counter will be that Davis had a higher PER and made more all star/all NBA teams. They fact that you can't see that is just sad.
I'll say again, both been in the league the same amount of seasons (6). Davis has made over 20M more in salary than Green. Next year Davis will make over 25M, Green under 18M. Davis has already missed over 80 games due to injury in his career (a full season). You can point to age all you want. But there is no way Davis plays longer in the league than Green (they came in the same year). Davis signs another max contract and walks away before it expires. Green would be the one to hang around..
Posted on 6/16/18 at 8:09 pm to Colonel Flagg
Give me Evil Jrue over Green all day
Posted on 6/17/18 at 12:00 am to brmark70816
Posted on 6/17/18 at 12:01 am to brmark70816
Posted on 6/17/18 at 12:02 am to brmark70816
Posted on 6/17/18 at 12:02 am to brmark70816
Posted on 6/17/18 at 12:03 am to brmark70816
Posted on 6/17/18 at 12:04 am to CocoLoco
Posted on 6/17/18 at 12:31 am to brmark70816
quote:
have to be the most obtuse group of sycophant fan boys I have ever witnessed. Not in the same discussion? Green's career is blowing away Davis's, it's not even close anymore. Extrapolate their careers ahead another 6-8 years and it will be even more embarrassing. What honors are you going to point to that Davis will hold over Green? Green is a multi time all star, multi all NBA, former DPOY, Olympian and by the time he retires will probably have 5-6 Championship rings. Your only counter will be that Davis had a higher PER and made more all star/all NBA teams. They fact that you can't see that is just sad.
Jesus Christ
Davis is and will be a multi all star, multi all NBA, Olympian
Chances are he’ll win MVP and is always in discussion for DPOY.
Green wins championships because of his team... you could literally replace Green with any player and that team would still win a championship.
The fact that you can’t see that is just sad...
This post was edited on 6/17/18 at 12:33 am
Posted on 6/17/18 at 7:37 am to brmark70816
Posted on 6/17/18 at 9:07 am to Fun Bunch
Basketball is chemistry, not algebra. It’s entirely possible for Green to be a Finals MVP level player with the Warriors and an MLE level player with most other teams that don’t have the personnel to cater to his strengths and cover his weaknesses. AD on the other hand would be a league MVP level candidate no matter what team he goes to. This really is just a silly argument. Green is great in Golden State, but it’s unclear how good he can be elsewhere.
Zach Lowe and guests often talks about how he runs the defense in an elite, savant manner that reminds me of how people talk about Rondo running an offense. Even if we’re talking Prime Rondo, he’s not in someone like AD’s neighborhood.
The more I think about it the more I like thinking of Green as a defensive version of Rondo. Rondo has been a disappointment and considered a team cancer everywhere except for the 2 times he was surrounded by multiple future HOFers still in or close enough to their primes. I can see the same being true with Green.
Zach Lowe and guests often talks about how he runs the defense in an elite, savant manner that reminds me of how people talk about Rondo running an offense. Even if we’re talking Prime Rondo, he’s not in someone like AD’s neighborhood.
The more I think about it the more I like thinking of Green as a defensive version of Rondo. Rondo has been a disappointment and considered a team cancer everywhere except for the 2 times he was surrounded by multiple future HOFers still in or close enough to their primes. I can see the same being true with Green.
This post was edited on 6/17/18 at 9:16 am
Posted on 6/17/18 at 10:36 am to brmark70816
Theres a reason why even first take thinks the warriors would have to give us Draymond green AND klay Thompson for AD in order for it to be a discussion.
But I guess the whole nba world is not privy to your team stats.
But I guess the whole nba world is not privy to your team stats.
Posted on 6/17/18 at 10:41 am to England_Pelican
quote:
The fact that you can’t see that is just sad...
What I can see is you can't read. I have admitted all of that and gone out of my way to give Davis as much props as I can. It's just not enough for some of you. You can want me to hit my knees and worship him like the rest of you do.
quote:
Green wins championships because of his team... you could literally replace Green with any player and that team would still win a championship.
No, just no. Green got blasted for costing them a Championship a couple of years ago. They didn't win their first title until he became a starter. He is the primary defender on James. Everybody wants him suspended or fouled out, cause it would have given the Cavs a shot. He has been one of their Captains for years. He's a 6'7 forward that mainly plays PF and C, then defends 2-5. Almost everybody here calls him a top 25 player. Considering there are almost 500 players in the league, that is pretty rare company. But now, anybody could replace him?
Posted on 6/17/18 at 10:44 am to TigerinATL
Situational Superstar
Green is very good. He is not close to Davis as a player. Props to bmark for sheer audacity
For me, there are a handful guys in the league who fit that Davis profile- can do what they do outside of team context. Even then, those guys still need help to win or may need to sublimate their games to contend (Russ, prime Paul)
Rondo/Green comp is fair, especially for locker room stuff. I would quibble w/ a couple of points:
Rondo has been a negative on defense for many years due to size/effort. Green isn't putting up the same offensive efficiency outside of GS, but, as long as you aren't asking him to be a volume scorer. his passing/off ball skills would still be a positive
I do think Green is a smarter defender than Davis. His ability to read the game is incredible. Davis has made big strides here (he also has worse teammates and does more on offense), but I think Green is just a little better right now at reading the game on that end. Davis's mental game catching up with physical gifts makes him a better overall defender at this point IMO.
Draymond Green Defensive Genius
Anthony Davis is the NBA's Portable Rim Protector
quote:
AD on the other hand would be a league MVP level candidate no matter what team he goes to
Green is very good. He is not close to Davis as a player. Props to bmark for sheer audacity
For me, there are a handful guys in the league who fit that Davis profile- can do what they do outside of team context. Even then, those guys still need help to win or may need to sublimate their games to contend (Russ, prime Paul)
Rondo/Green comp is fair, especially for locker room stuff. I would quibble w/ a couple of points:
Rondo has been a negative on defense for many years due to size/effort. Green isn't putting up the same offensive efficiency outside of GS, but, as long as you aren't asking him to be a volume scorer. his passing/off ball skills would still be a positive
I do think Green is a smarter defender than Davis. His ability to read the game is incredible. Davis has made big strides here (he also has worse teammates and does more on offense), but I think Green is just a little better right now at reading the game on that end. Davis's mental game catching up with physical gifts makes him a better overall defender at this point IMO.
Draymond Green Defensive Genius
Anthony Davis is the NBA's Portable Rim Protector
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