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Started By
Message
re: Devonte Graham to Pelicans for first round 2022 lottery-protected pick 4yrs/47 million
Posted on 8/3/21 at 10:07 am to Mystery
Posted on 8/3/21 at 10:07 am to Mystery
quote:To get from 17 to 10 would take another first likely in the 20s. Are you saying JV on a 1 year deal would have drawn more than that?
quote:
Whole deal also included moving down from 10 to 17. That could easily be seen as the compensation for JV.
1
Posted on 8/3/21 at 10:07 am to MrJimBeam
Well we know Sacramento is trying to shed some salary. They also drafted Mitchell to play a 3 guard lineup. They just resigned Holmes as well. And If they have interest in Hart and fillers in a S&T, it could be good for both teams. But that's just a thought that some in the fanbase are hoping for.
Posted on 8/3/21 at 10:08 am to MrJimBeam
quote:The only way I can see is if they either have to dump his salary or they really like Hart.
What's a realistic scenario for Barnes here?
Posted on 8/3/21 at 10:09 am to Mystery
quote:Ok, that was my point. We used picks to get them, we used picks to get rid of them. That was my point, it stands.
Yes, factually picks were used to get off of two contracts.
Posted on 8/3/21 at 10:09 am to MrJimBeam
fwiw
quote:
FREE AGENCY: Using a blend of
@profitxai
and
@johnhollinger
contract analytics, here's how newly-inked deals compare to their projections:
Below AAV projection = blue!
Above AAV projection = red!
quote:
Fortunately, I have a tool to help answer that question. (To help, I should emphasize: Issues such as contract length and future growth/aging curves are pretty complex variables before you ever get into the issues of player fit and personalities and all the rest.)
I call this tool BORD$ (Big Ol’ Rating Dollars), and it’s designed to answer a simple question: How much value can we expect a given player to deliver for next season? I based this on two variables: the expected quality of the players’ minutes, and how many minutes we’d expect the player to play on an average team.
quote:
For those who are uninterested in the long take, here’s the short one: I merged three widely available player ratings into a cocktail that I call BORG (Big Ol’ Rating) to estimate each player’s value on a per-possession basis. I then used that rating and an estimate of each player’s likely minutes to determine a dollar value for his 2020-21 season, his BORD$ (Big Ol’ Rating Dollars). That value depends on the cap being the same as it was in 2019-20; if it changes, we’ll adjust the dollar values accordingly.
Posted on 8/3/21 at 10:10 am to NOSHAU
I wasn't talking to you and have no idea what you are trying to argue with me about.
I am not debating the guy on if the trades were good, bad or neutral.
I am just saying what he stated was not the facts. And wondering why he left them out to make a point.
I am not debating the guy on if the trades were good, bad or neutral.
I am just saying what he stated was not the facts. And wondering why he left them out to make a point.
Posted on 8/3/21 at 10:13 am to Mystery
quote:You responded to my post (which was clarifying the part of the trade that you left out) with a laughing emoji. That is what I was responding to (not arguing).
I wasn't talking to you and have no idea what you are trying to argue with me about.
I am not debating the guy on if the trades were good, bad or neutral.
I am just saying what he stated was not the facts. And wondering why he left them out to make a point.
This post was edited on 8/3/21 at 10:14 am
Posted on 8/3/21 at 10:13 am to shel311
quote:Not all first round picks are created equally. They just aren't. A pick in the 20's isn't worth shite. I don't know why you guys fetishize late firsts. We haven't given up a single first round pick with significant value. A lottery protected pick from the Nuggets, a top 10 protected pick from the Lakers, and a lottery protected pick from us. None of those picks are truly valuable.
We used a 1st to get Adams, we gave up picks to get off of Adams/Bled. Yes, we got Jval but nothing I said is untrue.
We got dudes with a 1st and 1 year later gave up a 1st to get off of these dudes.
And it's not like we need the players from those picks to add cheap guys to the roster, we have something like 8 guys on rookie scale deals right now
Posted on 8/3/21 at 10:17 am to Epic Cajun
quote:Yet again, that only works when we'r sending picks, not when we're getting a return back like on Zo.
Not all first round picks are created equally. They just aren't. A pick in the 20's isn't worth shite. I don't know why you guys fetishize late firsts. We haven't given up a single first round pick with significant value
When it was Zo, a 1st was wayyyyy too expensive apparently.
Posted on 8/3/21 at 10:28 am to shel311
quote:We had to give Charlotte a small payment for not matching a deal that was under market value. Chicago didn't have to do the same, because Lonzo's deal is basically market value, and he has an asshat as an agent that I bet Griff really didn't want to deal with anymore.
Yet again, that only works when we'r sending picks, not when we're getting a return back like on Zo.
When it was Zo, a 1st was wayyyyy too expensive apparently.
There are definitely different schools of thought on non-lottery 1st round picks. IMO, they aren't worth shite. Maybe some GMs value them, and others don't. For Griff, maybe he really doesn't value them, but maybe Karnisovas does. If that was the case, Griff wasn't going to hold up the deal haggling over something that he doesn't really place significant value on. Which could be the same reason why he was okay with including the pick to Charlotte. We also have no idea what the future value of that pick is if it's not transferred in 22. I would assume that it would convert to 2nds, but I could be wrong there. I don't see Griff wanting to hold up future draft value by having the protections stay at lottery for several seasons.
Posted on 8/3/21 at 10:30 am to Epic Cajun
quote:
We had to give Charlotte a small payment for not matching a deal that was under market value. Chicago didn't have to do the same,
to fit under their cap, I'm pretty sure they did need our help
quote:
and he has an asshat as an agent that I bet Griff really didn't want to deal with anymore.
emotional thinking if true. if you're right, we're doomed
Posted on 8/3/21 at 10:31 am to Epic Cajun
quote:
And it's not like we need the players from those picks to add cheap guys to the roster, we have something like 8 guys on rookie scale deals right now
it'd matter if we could scout better like memphis
Posted on 8/3/21 at 10:37 am to SlowFlowPro
quote:It's not just emotional thinking. Do you really want to bring back an unhappy Lonzo into your locker room? That's a cancer that is not needed for this team.
emotional thinking if true. if you're right, we're doomed
quote:Maybe Griff values the contracts of Temple and Sato more than a lottery protected 1st? If we're going to continue to make moves, we need salaries to match for some of them. Currently, outside of Sato and Temple, our only salaries that we have are from young players that we probably want to keep and develop.
to fit under their cap, I'm pretty sure they did need our help
Posted on 8/3/21 at 10:50 am to Epic Cajun
Keep fighting the good fight.
Jake I’m on the record for hating the moves they made last year. Next years Pels team is gonna be really fun.
Jake I’m on the record for hating the moves they made last year. Next years Pels team is gonna be really fun.
Posted on 8/3/21 at 10:53 am to Epic Cajun
quote:Red Flags should be going off right now if that's a reason to take a lesser deal to just stop dealing with an agent
and he has an asshat as an agent that I bet Griff really didn't want to deal with anymore.
Posted on 8/3/21 at 10:57 am to shel311
quote:
Red Flags should be going off right now if that's a reason to take a lesser deal to just stop dealing with an agent
I disagree. Klutch is a cancer. We should blackball them.
It's not emotional. It's business. They are poison for our franchise.
Posted on 8/3/21 at 10:58 am to Epic Cajun
quote:
We had to give Charlotte a small payment for not matching a deal that was under market value. Chicago didn't have to do the same, because Lonzo's deal is basically market value, and he has an asshat as an agent that I bet Griff really didn't want to deal with anymore.
There are definitely different schools of thought on non-lottery 1st round picks. IMO, they aren't worth shite. Maybe some GMs value them, and others don't. For Griff, maybe he really doesn't value them, but maybe Karnisovas does. If that was the case, Griff wasn't going to hold up the deal haggling over something that he doesn't really place significant value on. Which could be the same reason why he was okay with including the pick to Charlotte. We also have no idea what the future value of that pick is if it's not transferred in 22. I would assume that it would convert to 2nds, but I could be wrong there. I don't see Griff wanting to hold up future draft value by having the protections stay at lottery for several seasons.
Not to mention we will already have 6-7 players on the roster with less than 3 years NBA experience next season. If we are in win-now mode, I have no problem using a lottery protected first for an established player.
Posted on 8/3/21 at 11:00 am to BilJ
that is a very interesting chart
of note (maybe only to me)...alex caruso is expected to bring greater return than lonzo ball, at half the price. lakers let him walk for nothing
of note (maybe only to me)...alex caruso is expected to bring greater return than lonzo ball, at half the price. lakers let him walk for nothing
Posted on 8/3/21 at 11:05 am to ghost2most
quote:It's purely emotional
I disagree. Klutch is a cancer. We should blackball them.
It's not emotional. It's business
No one is complaining about any other agency who has done a lot of the same shite
This post was edited on 8/3/21 at 11:06 am
Posted on 8/3/21 at 11:06 am to shel311
quote:
Yet again, that only works when we'r sending picks, not when we're getting a return back like on Zo.
When it was Zo, a 1st was wayyyyy too expensive apparently.
Because a Lottery protected 1st/2 2nd round pick from the bulls is likely to be 2 second round picks.
Ball and Caruso are not making them a playoff team.
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