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Message
19 games in - what does Zion do better/worse than you expected
Posted on 3/9/20 at 4:37 pm
Posted on 3/9/20 at 4:37 pm
I'm going to break this down into things that have pleasantly surprised me and things that I'm kind of disappointed in.
All of the disappointment must be caveated by saying, the kid is 19 and he's phenomenal and will improve.
The good
- No way I thought he'd score so much or so efficiently.
- His touch around the rim is better than I expected. He really has a soft touch and is able to use the glass to perfection.
- I knew he was a freak but his ability to just move grown arse men at will is still somewhat surprising
The bad
- His D. I think I was spoiled by the highlights of him swatting 3 pointers into the stands or him guarding PGs at the top of the key. He's been borderline awful on D outside of some solid post D. Get him in space though and it's ugly.
- His conditioning. This is my only real concern. He'll get better everywhere else but he's heavy. I don't like that at 19. Most guys continue to gain weight at that age.
- His rebounding overall is lower than I thought. He's a beast chasing his own shots but on D, he hasn't gotten that many. I think this is primarily because Al has him leaking out constantly.
This offseason he needs to focus on three things:
- Conditioning. I think this will fix some of the D issues.
- Adding a pump fake. He is bothered by length because he has no counter moves. Full speed straight to the basket. If he can get under control and use a head or ball fake rather than getting trapped under the rim, a lot of those blocks won't happen.
- Ball handling. He needs to be dribbling constantly. Way too many turnovers when he puts it on the floor.
There are obviously other areas like shooting, etc., but I'd focus on those first.
All of the disappointment must be caveated by saying, the kid is 19 and he's phenomenal and will improve.
The good
- No way I thought he'd score so much or so efficiently.
- His touch around the rim is better than I expected. He really has a soft touch and is able to use the glass to perfection.
- I knew he was a freak but his ability to just move grown arse men at will is still somewhat surprising
The bad
- His D. I think I was spoiled by the highlights of him swatting 3 pointers into the stands or him guarding PGs at the top of the key. He's been borderline awful on D outside of some solid post D. Get him in space though and it's ugly.
- His conditioning. This is my only real concern. He'll get better everywhere else but he's heavy. I don't like that at 19. Most guys continue to gain weight at that age.
- His rebounding overall is lower than I thought. He's a beast chasing his own shots but on D, he hasn't gotten that many. I think this is primarily because Al has him leaking out constantly.
This offseason he needs to focus on three things:
- Conditioning. I think this will fix some of the D issues.
- Adding a pump fake. He is bothered by length because he has no counter moves. Full speed straight to the basket. If he can get under control and use a head or ball fake rather than getting trapped under the rim, a lot of those blocks won't happen.
- Ball handling. He needs to be dribbling constantly. Way too many turnovers when he puts it on the floor.
There are obviously other areas like shooting, etc., but I'd focus on those first.
20
Posted on 3/9/20 at 4:42 pm to ulsaint
You pretty much covered.
I didn't know he would be this good this quickly at scoring. He's basically already an elite scorer. Not elite for a rookie. Elite period.
His D is really really bad. Much worse than I expected.
I didn't know he would be this good this quickly at scoring. He's basically already an elite scorer. Not elite for a rookie. Elite period.
His D is really really bad. Much worse than I expected.
Posted on 3/9/20 at 4:48 pm to ulsaint
i think his defensive rebounding is hurt by how we use him. in trying to get him in space quickly, others have to get the boards
Posted on 3/9/20 at 4:54 pm to ulsaint
I think as his conditioning improves/the knee injury becomes a thing of the past his defense will improve as well. Still looks a bit tentative when he’s having to react.
He’s definitely looking leaner than when he first came back. I think his body/ physique still a work in progress that probably won’t fully mature for another 4 seasons.
He’s definitely looking leaner than when he first came back. I think his body/ physique still a work in progress that probably won’t fully mature for another 4 seasons.
Posted on 3/9/20 at 4:54 pm to ulsaint
quote:
Ball handling. He needs to be dribbling constantly. Way too many turnovers when he puts it on the floor.
This kills me. There was a loose ball the other night that he tried to dribble instead of picking it up. His handles are terrible. I don’t like when he gets the ball outside the lane.
Posted on 3/9/20 at 5:10 pm to BigPerm30
He does not know how to play professional basketball yet and is averaging 25 points per game ... the league is fricked
Posted on 3/9/20 at 5:12 pm to ulsaint
It's crazy how polished he is at finishing at the rim. So much so, u get frustrated when he misses
Posted on 3/9/20 at 5:15 pm to ulsaint
I have not been disappointed in a single thing. His defense isnt good but I could not care less. He's 19 games in and better than expected and I expected him to be really good. I have no reason to think he wont get better on D.
Posted on 3/9/20 at 5:24 pm to iwyLSUiwy
I like the fact that he has shown that he can make a 3. At the very least, that is something that he can build on. Once he shows that he can be a scoring threat beyond 2-feet under the basket, there will be no possible way to defend him.
Like everyone else has said in here, his defense is some of the worst I've ever seen from a "name" player.
Like everyone else has said in here, his defense is some of the worst I've ever seen from a "name" player.
Posted on 3/9/20 at 5:31 pm to saints5021
quote:
He does not know how to play professional basketball yet and is averaging 25 points per game ... the league is fricked
This is the key takeaway to me. He has a ton of room for improvement and he's already this good.
Posted on 3/9/20 at 6:17 pm to ulsaint
quote:
- His D. I think I was spoiled by the highlights of him swatting 3 pointers into the stands or him guarding PGs at the top of the key. He's been borderline awful on D outside of some solid post D. Get him in space though and it's ugly.
His lateral movement has been slower than I expected, but I figure that will come with time as we move further and further away from his surgery.
quote:
- His rebounding overall is lower than I thought. He's a beast chasing his own shots but on D, he hasn't gotten that many. I think this is primarily because Al has him leaking out constantly.
From what I have noticed is that he has mental lapses and doesn't box out. With his ability to move defenders, he should be boxing guys out and going up and getting more boards. Instead he does like most rookie bigs and watches the ball and just leaps at it with no regard for any nearby defenders
quote:
- Ball handling. He needs to be dribbling constantly. Way too many turnovers when he puts it on the floor.
He will develop some go-to moves in the offseason, but at the moment the book has been written since his 3rd game back and teams know to swipe down at the ball when he gathers.
Posted on 3/9/20 at 6:30 pm to ulsaint
He is basically a young taller Barkely on steroids.
Posted on 3/9/20 at 6:42 pm to ulsaint
For someone who was supposed to be afforded a personal chef & trainer, his conditioning is baffling
Everything else I kind of expected, except His aggressiveness. I knew he would be able to get buckets but I did not think he’d attack as much. He’s a dude & he knows it, which is rare for his age
Everything else I kind of expected, except His aggressiveness. I knew he would be able to get buckets but I did not think he’d attack as much. He’s a dude & he knows it, which is rare for his age
This post was edited on 3/9/20 at 7:17 pm
Posted on 3/9/20 at 7:05 pm to Lester Earl
Hopefully he has a conversation with Lebron about the million dollars he spends a year just on maintaining his body.
He needs to get ultra serious about it. His conditioning is pretty shite.
He needs to get ultra serious about it. His conditioning is pretty shite.
Posted on 3/9/20 at 7:27 pm to ulsaint
I really like everything I see about his intangibles: his locker-room presence, his competitiveness, his leadership. That's all even better than I expected.
Everyone has covered everything else. My biggest disappointment is definitely his handle. It's hard to believe now, but we talked a lot in the preseason about whether he was more of a 3/4 or a 4/5. Zion even said in the preseason that he might play the 3. I had visions of him initiating the pick-and-roll with Hayes as the roll man. Just seems ridiculous now.
Everyone has covered everything else. My biggest disappointment is definitely his handle. It's hard to believe now, but we talked a lot in the preseason about whether he was more of a 3/4 or a 4/5. Zion even said in the preseason that he might play the 3. I had visions of him initiating the pick-and-roll with Hayes as the roll man. Just seems ridiculous now.
Posted on 3/9/20 at 8:05 pm to ulsaint
Better-
His motor
Ability to finish at the rim (non dunks)
Passing
Improved Free throws (it was bad but it has improved significantly)
Seizing the moment
- 1st game, 4 threes in a row. Gets more amazing the further from that night we get)
Worse-
Defense (it'll get better)
Ball handling (it'll get better)
His motor
Ability to finish at the rim (non dunks)
Passing
Improved Free throws (it was bad but it has improved significantly)
Seizing the moment
- 1st game, 4 threes in a row. Gets more amazing the further from that night we get)
Worse-
Defense (it'll get better)
Ball handling (it'll get better)
Posted on 3/9/20 at 8:22 pm to GOP_Tiger
Yeah Super-Draymond was a popular pundit projection...and it didn’t seem far off. And tbf I think the foundation is still there for him to be a Draymond/Griffin type ball handler, I just think it was a little premature.
Outside of that I have to say he’s exceeded my expectations. I don’t know of anyone that projected him to walk into the league 18th in the league in scoring after injury and average 28.5ppg per 36. Putting him as the 8th starter in that category. And I think it speaks to his high IQ that he is shooting nearly 60% and 46% from three. Simply because he is incredibly tactical and smart with his offense. He rarely takes a bad shot. And for someone his age it’s just basically unheard of. When he inevitably tightens his dribble, adjusts his form a bit with Vinson, and improves his low post moves, I just don’t know how he doesn’t end up averaging 30+ for the next 8-10 years barring injury? I still think we are a few seasons out from true contention barring some win now moves with our assets, but he’s lived up to the hype imo
Outside of that I have to say he’s exceeded my expectations. I don’t know of anyone that projected him to walk into the league 18th in the league in scoring after injury and average 28.5ppg per 36. Putting him as the 8th starter in that category. And I think it speaks to his high IQ that he is shooting nearly 60% and 46% from three. Simply because he is incredibly tactical and smart with his offense. He rarely takes a bad shot. And for someone his age it’s just basically unheard of. When he inevitably tightens his dribble, adjusts his form a bit with Vinson, and improves his low post moves, I just don’t know how he doesn’t end up averaging 30+ for the next 8-10 years barring injury? I still think we are a few seasons out from true contention barring some win now moves with our assets, but he’s lived up to the hype imo
This post was edited on 3/9/20 at 8:22 pm
Posted on 3/9/20 at 8:25 pm to ulsaint
quote:
His conditioning. This is my only real concern. He'll get better everywhere else but he's heavy. I don't like that at 19. Most guys continue to gain weight at that age.
I think he will drop pounds when his growth will be over at 22 (to find his stasis) , David Griffin seems to see like that. He has a nfl body type...
quote:
- His rebounding overall is lower than I thought. He's a beast chasing his own shots but on D, he hasn't gotten that many. I think this is primarily because Al has him leaking out constantly.
This Favors's role to take D rebounds but i think it will get better however.
quote:
- Ball handling. He needs to be dribbling constantly. Way too many turnovers when he puts it on the floor.
I think it'll get better.
quote:
There are obviously other areas like shooting, etc., but I'd focus on those first.
He's a good catch & shooter 3. On the other hand, he must get a better FT% yes.
Posted on 3/9/20 at 8:43 pm to Fun Bunch
hes not in shape.
and i thought he would have worked on his jumper, and the upfake.
hopefully he comes in next season in terrific shape and has a real (reworked) jumper.
his d will be a function of being in shape.
he needs help with his shot.
i suppose he will get it some day.
people mention his ball handling. dont hold your breath. he has a ton to work on.
and i thought he would have worked on his jumper, and the upfake.
hopefully he comes in next season in terrific shape and has a real (reworked) jumper.
his d will be a function of being in shape.
he needs help with his shot.
i suppose he will get it some day.
people mention his ball handling. dont hold your breath. he has a ton to work on.
Posted on 3/9/20 at 9:06 pm to CelticDog
Less in shape
Less Hustle down the court
Less handle
Less jumper
Less FT%
Less Defense
better hands on dunk
better attitude than thought
better role player
Less Hustle down the court
Less handle
Less jumper
Less FT%
Less Defense
better hands on dunk
better attitude than thought
better role player
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