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Posted on 12/21/15 at 8:49 am to Napoleon
He must let us know that he didn't like it and that we are all fools for liking it.
Posted on 12/21/15 at 8:51 am to LSUDAN1
quote:
I wish we would have gotten a little more background on Finn and his reason for all of a sudden getting a conscience.
Didn't he mention that this was his first mission? I'm sure it would rock your foundation if you were ordered to kill an entire village your first time out.
This post was edited on 12/21/15 at 8:52 am
Posted on 12/21/15 at 8:51 am to GeauxTigers2020
quote:
Because the prequels are bad, but The Force Awakens is good.
Agreed.
And there's a difference in constructive criticism and OMG THIS IS THE WORST STAR WARS MOVIE EVAR that's being spewed. Nobody is going to listen to the later because it's patently false and likely just a shitty troll attempt or someone who was expecting something that wasn't possible to begin with.
Posted on 12/21/15 at 9:07 am to pvilleguru
quote:
Who did this? Finn wasn't badass with it. Rey was good, but we saw that she was skilled with a similar weaopon, the staff thing she was always carrying around. Also, they were both fighting an injured Ren. Hell, Finn almost got his arse kicked by the stormtrooper.
Yeah, people are blowing this out of proportion. Finn was by no means handling his business with the lightsaber, and Rey was actually running away from Ren the majority of their fight. I had no issues with the way those scenes played out. My gripe with the film is a lot of the rehashed ideas. I cannot believe they went with a death star for the third time, that's just lazy writing.
Posted on 12/21/15 at 9:35 am to tigerfan88
quote:
The original Star Wars had good visual effects for the time sure, but the story was also super original and the world was engrossing.
You are aware that Lucas isn't shy about the fact that he pretty much cut and pasted from his favorite films right? Star Wars is great, but far from original.
Yes the cocktail is unique, but he didn't make is own bourbon or anything.
Posted on 12/21/15 at 9:43 am to fr33manator
I like TFA, but there's no doubt it really doesn't give a lot of scenes time enough to breathe. Some of the cuts, particularly the 2nd half, are so fast that there has to be 20+ minutes of deleted scenes. I'd be really interested in seeing that cut of the movie.
Posted on 12/21/15 at 9:44 am to Draconian Sanctions
quote:
I'd be really interested in seeing that cut of the movie.
i want to know the expanded role of nyongo's character
Posted on 12/21/15 at 9:47 am to Freauxzen
quote:
You are aware that Lucas isn't shy about the fact that he pretty much cut and pasted from his favorite films right? Star Wars is great, but far from original.
Yes the cocktail is unique, but he didn't make is own bourbon or anything.
Yeah, Lucas made this work by taking the best out of everything he was passionate about into a single movie, but the arc is pretty straight forward. Empire was the movie that really established what a sequel should be and I think it initially perplexed the audience and critics over its dark nature in comparison to the originals. But Star Wars is straight forward, simple, and timeless, and that's because it completely adheres to a formula that works.
Posted on 12/21/15 at 9:53 am to OMLandshark
how many american movies involved the "chosen one" orphan who finds a mentor who trains him in [some sort of secret method of badassery], but then dies leaving the orphan to find his way to become the greatest [secret method of badassery]? i don't think it was that common before star wars, esp in sci fi
the first star wars was a mess of shite that somehow ended up being revolutionary. lucas's vision was terrible and jumbled and the harsh limits placed on him by the studio forced creation by others to mold it. i think they even had to recut/reshoot after its initial viewing to get to that final cut.
the first star wars was a mess of shite that somehow ended up being revolutionary. lucas's vision was terrible and jumbled and the harsh limits placed on him by the studio forced creation by others to mold it. i think they even had to recut/reshoot after its initial viewing to get to that final cut.
Posted on 12/21/15 at 10:02 am to fr33manator
:cracksknuckles:
Ok let's get down to it....
For someone who really really dislikes TFA and the Prequels, how do you not see this? First, let's be clear, the OT are not good movies. Or rather, they are poor movies with some terrible components that add up to WAY more than the sum of their parts. If you are TRULY objective, then your avarice should also lend an intense look at the terrible acting, dialog, plotting, special effects, of the OT.
But it isn't just RoTJ.
The thing about the OT is that there is magic there, something that is way more important than any of the tactile pieces. The problem with that is that the magic in the OT can never be replicated and has only been captured a few times in the total of films itself. How many other properties TRULY have the scope and reach of the Star Wars OT? I mean think really, really hard about that. Wizard of Oz? Maybe. Gone with the Wind? Maybe. Money doesn't tell the whole story, you have to look at scope, reach, interest, fandom. It's not far to assume that no single series of film has had a broader impact on pop culture than Star Wars. Not Harry Potter. Not Superman or Batman, Not James Bond. The OT stands alone...
But they are still kind of shoddily made films (which is honestly part of the charm), and the acting, especially in the New Hope outside of Ford or Guiness, is kind of terrible. Be honest with yourself, let the objectivity flow through you...
So fast forward to the prequels the FIRST attempt to recapture the magic not named "Star Wars: A Christmas Special." The hype was massive, possibly more so than for TFA, and the reaction since was shifted from dislike and apathy, to full on disdain. The problem is that the prequels were never going capture the magic of the OT. Never. But people really, really wanted them to. Really. So the hate comes form the failure, and the complete stubbornness of Lucas to not even try to do something fun. He made something uneven, he didn't improve any bad parts of the OT outside of the special effects, and he did a terrible job of getting what was in his head onto paper. So the faults are exacerbated by the lack of connection to the OT. (And I'd argue RoTS is not THAT bad anyways, and parts of Phantom Menace are good. The big problem is Attack of the Clones.)
The Prequels showed us that without the magic, the Star Wars films are essentially blockbusters. Some people know this, but they were never treated as such. Blockbuster films are loud, bright, shiny, have often rather thin characters with an exception or two, have major plot holes and narrative problems or inconsistencies. They exist to evoke excitement. The OT was that, but the magic kind of obscured those ideas and they were accepted as something more than a movie....
Bingo. But even with that Magic, you still had bad films.
The problem with the Force Awakens is that it removes the sheen, but it does so in the most unoffensive way possible. People have to accept, critiques or not, that Star Wars is a universe, a blockbuster universe, and not much more. TFA was great, I loved it, but it only captured the look and feel of the OT, not the magic. It isn't going to inspire anyone, and outside of a giant barrage of toys and stuff, it won't really inspire the rabid fandom of the OT.
But it's going to live on that fandom for a long, long time. And that's ok.
I think the problem and why people are resisting, is that the complaints are not a mile long. They are only a mile long if you're requiring this to be an Oscar film. And most complaints are super minor. There are only a few big problems (Finn, the Starkiller's plausibility, etc.). Outside of that, it does what it is supposed to do. I'm not sure if that's a good or bad thing, however.
Ok let's get down to it....
quote:
Why are the SW prequels fair game for criticism, but TFA somehow sacred?
This is getting ridiculous.
For someone who really really dislikes TFA and the Prequels, how do you not see this? First, let's be clear, the OT are not good movies. Or rather, they are poor movies with some terrible components that add up to WAY more than the sum of their parts. If you are TRULY objective, then your avarice should also lend an intense look at the terrible acting, dialog, plotting, special effects, of the OT.
quote:
The only thing "sacred" is the OT. And even it really isn't.
People shite all over ROTJ.
But it isn't just RoTJ.
The thing about the OT is that there is magic there, something that is way more important than any of the tactile pieces. The problem with that is that the magic in the OT can never be replicated and has only been captured a few times in the total of films itself. How many other properties TRULY have the scope and reach of the Star Wars OT? I mean think really, really hard about that. Wizard of Oz? Maybe. Gone with the Wind? Maybe. Money doesn't tell the whole story, you have to look at scope, reach, interest, fandom. It's not far to assume that no single series of film has had a broader impact on pop culture than Star Wars. Not Harry Potter. Not Superman or Batman, Not James Bond. The OT stands alone...
But they are still kind of shoddily made films (which is honestly part of the charm), and the acting, especially in the New Hope outside of Ford or Guiness, is kind of terrible. Be honest with yourself, let the objectivity flow through you...
So fast forward to the prequels the FIRST attempt to recapture the magic not named "Star Wars: A Christmas Special." The hype was massive, possibly more so than for TFA, and the reaction since was shifted from dislike and apathy, to full on disdain. The problem is that the prequels were never going capture the magic of the OT. Never. But people really, really wanted them to. Really. So the hate comes form the failure, and the complete stubbornness of Lucas to not even try to do something fun. He made something uneven, he didn't improve any bad parts of the OT outside of the special effects, and he did a terrible job of getting what was in his head onto paper. So the faults are exacerbated by the lack of connection to the OT. (And I'd argue RoTS is not THAT bad anyways, and parts of Phantom Menace are good. The big problem is Attack of the Clones.)
The Prequels showed us that without the magic, the Star Wars films are essentially blockbusters. Some people know this, but they were never treated as such. Blockbuster films are loud, bright, shiny, have often rather thin characters with an exception or two, have major plot holes and narrative problems or inconsistencies. They exist to evoke excitement. The OT was that, but the magic kind of obscured those ideas and they were accepted as something more than a movie....
quote:
The Force Awakens is a hype Machine with sins equal or greater to the prequels. The Magic was gone after the OT. It won't be back. Ever.
Now, that being said, you can watch, critique, enjoy and condemn the prequels in their own little vacuum.
Bingo. But even with that Magic, you still had bad films.
The problem with the Force Awakens is that it removes the sheen, but it does so in the most unoffensive way possible. People have to accept, critiques or not, that Star Wars is a universe, a blockbuster universe, and not much more. TFA was great, I loved it, but it only captured the look and feel of the OT, not the magic. It isn't going to inspire anyone, and outside of a giant barrage of toys and stuff, it won't really inspire the rabid fandom of the OT.
But it's going to live on that fandom for a long, long time. And that's ok.
I think the problem and why people are resisting, is that the complaints are not a mile long. They are only a mile long if you're requiring this to be an Oscar film. And most complaints are super minor. There are only a few big problems (Finn, the Starkiller's plausibility, etc.). Outside of that, it does what it is supposed to do. I'm not sure if that's a good or bad thing, however.
Posted on 12/21/15 at 10:11 am to Freauxzen
quote:
There are only a few big problems (Finn, the Starkiller's plausibility, etc
I agree with the new death star, it's just lazy to include this yet again. What was your problem with Finn thou? I had my issues with the film but I thought Boyega was just fine.
Posted on 12/21/15 at 10:15 am to Freauxzen
^
Posted on 12/21/15 at 10:17 am to Freauxzen
quote:Here's another, simple, extremely valid reason: the prequels are over a decade old, while TFA has been playing for 5 days now.
Why are the SW prequels fair game for criticism, but TFA somehow sacred?
I'm a Star Wars fanatic, even as an adult. I've come to grips that the prequels were very disappointing, hollow and shallow. It's tough for me to watch more than a scene of two from those movies at a stretch.
It took me nearly a year to admit my own complaints about The Phantom Menace, I saw it the first weekend, and several more times in the theater, and then bought the Blu ray on the first day. I watched it on my home theater as soon as I got home. Because it was Star Wars, and my first fix in a decade. And in my mind, it was going like this:
"uhh, umm, confusing, a little silly, YEAH LIGHTSABERS YAY!! uhh strange, uhh pointless, huh big fish, LIGHTSABERS AGAIN YAY! ... " etc.
I had a contractor banging on my front window because I didn't hear the doorbell, for a scheduled appointment, because I had the volume cranked to 11 on the climatic Darth Maul vs Qui-Gonn and Obi Wan fight. And yes, now I acknowledge that movie was pretty terrible.
Posted on 12/21/15 at 10:19 am to RLDSC FAN
quote:
What was your problem with Finn thou?
i could go on for a long while
finn is my #2 worst SW character ever behind jarjar
Posted on 12/21/15 at 10:23 am to Scoob
quote:
Darth Maul vs Qui-Gonn and Obi Wan fight
The only thing they got right. Don't care what anyone says, the score and that scene kicked arse.
Posted on 12/21/15 at 10:25 am to SlowFlowPro
quote:
i could go on for a long while
I have time, let's hear it
Posted on 12/21/15 at 10:26 am to SlowFlowPro
quote:
finn is my #2 worst SW character ever behind jarjar
Thank you.
I got called a racist for saying this.
But his character, dialogue, attitude, everything did not belong in Star Wars.
The First Order was supposed to be trained from childhood as ruthless soldiers. So it wasn't like Finn was some character who got drafted and had to cut his hair and 6 weeks of boot camp before being thrown into battle.
His defection, inflection and direction made ZERO Sense.
His casting was a pandering diversity choice by Disney. And it isn't Boyega's fault.
Posted on 12/21/15 at 10:32 am to fr33manator
quote:
I got called a racist for saying this.
Who did?
I only ask because it seems the most consistent criticism of the film is his place in it and how he fits in. It's a valid criticism IMO but I haven't seen anyone dropping the race card over that criticism.
Posted on 12/21/15 at 10:32 am to fr33manator
quote:
His defection, inflection and direction made ZERO Sense
Like Han suddenly becoming a good/selfless dude and helping the rebels? Granted you could argue he simply did it for Leia but still, I argue he legit cared for the cause and Luke etc.
Or Darth Vador suddenly saving his son by killing the emperor?
You're straight up TRUMPING this debate dude.
This post was edited on 12/21/15 at 10:35 am
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