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re: Who wins in a fight? Captain America or Batman?
Posted on 4/4/14 at 12:24 pm to Freauxzen
Posted on 4/4/14 at 12:24 pm to Freauxzen
quote:
on the other hand they eschew logic JUST so that Batman can beat Superman
Here's a realistic Batman versus Superman fight.
Batman issues a challenge to Superman. Superman, who is chillin' on the moon soaking in some rays whilest crocheting, hears him all the way from earth.
Superman lowers his partially made quilt and peers down on Earth only to see Batman raging on some rooftop in Gotham. Superman smirks and returns to crocheting....waiting until he hears a loud fart sound from Wayne Manor.
Superman, once again lowers his quilt, focuses on Batman taking a dump, then incinerates Wayne Manor with his heat ray vision.
Satisfied, Superman leans back, stretches and yawns then returns back to quilting...on the freaking moon.
1
Posted on 4/4/14 at 12:30 pm to Freauxzen
quote:
You sure about that?
all of those examples are exactly my point. the dossier stuff is getting completely overblown. look to the numerous examples you provided. people are only focusing on that. that would be my point. hes more than that and only has a dossier on someone hes fought a dozen times. which is just logical.
quote:
Bats would make sure he has every tactical advantage before engaging with a super soldier.
i didnt mean having an exact file on Captain America and his abilities. just assumed he knew he was facing someone physically stronger than himself.
Posted on 4/4/14 at 12:31 pm to theunknownknight
quote:
Here's a realistic Batman versus Superman fight.
Batman issues a challenge to Superman. Superman, who is chillin' on the moon soaking in some rays whilest crocheting, hears him all the way from earth.
Superman lowers his partially made quilt and peers down on Earth only to see Batman raging on some rooftop in Gotham. Superman smirks and returns to crocheting....waiting until he hears a loud fart sound from Wayne Manor.
Superman, once again lowers his quilt, focuses on Batman taking a dump, then incinerates Wayne Manor with his heat ray vision.
Satisfied, Superman leans back, stretches and yawns then returns back to quilting...on the freaking moon.
Wrong!!!
You want to know the reason? I'll give you 6 reasons.
1. B
2. A
3. T
4. M
5. A
6. N
Your story has just been shown for the blasphemy it is!
Posted on 4/4/14 at 12:36 pm to BlacknGold
quote:
all of those examples are exactly my point. the dossier stuff is getting completely overblown.
Well, you did address that comment to me talking about Dossier's, so it looked you were saying I was blowing it out of proportion. My mistake.
quote:
people are only focusing on that. that would be my point.
That's exactly the problem. But look at three or four of those comments which basically equate to:
Preparation = Batman wins THAT'S the plot device that is the problem.
Hey, I was talking about tit for tat, showing examples, etc. why Captain America matches up well, but people just want to mention "Batman blows him out of the water with a folder of information!!"
quote:
i didnt mean having an exact file on Captain America and his abilities. just assumed he knew he was facing someone physically stronger than himself.
"Every tactical advantage" is indicative of a lot more.
And so what? That information isn't going to help him really. At all. So it shouldn't be a benefit for Batman. Batman should probably just assume that anyone he fights is stronger than he is.
This post was edited on 4/4/14 at 12:37 pm
Posted on 4/4/14 at 12:41 pm to Freauxzen
quote:
That's exactly the problem. But look at three or four of those comments which basically equate to:
Preparation = Batman wins THAT'S the plot device that is the problem.
ah, herein lies the problem. i now see why people become so annoyed with Batman. like i mentioned, this is probably due to the character being in so other accessible material like movies, cartoons, and games. its really not like that in the comics.
eta: stripping characters down to their physical abilities isnt a poor debate,imo. in this case, Goddamn Plastic Man would beat both Batman and Captain America.
This post was edited on 4/4/14 at 12:42 pm
Posted on 4/4/14 at 12:44 pm to Freauxzen
Whoever at DC decided that giving Batman a file cabinet full of everybody's weakness should be drug by the nuts through a sea of broken glass.
In a straight up fight Batman gets knocked the fudge out.
With the right detective work (you know that shite Batman is supposed to do) and the element of fear and surprise (the other two things Batman does) and a gadget or two Batman wins. This is how Batman rolls. However, Captain America isn't a dumbass, and is probably not going to get caught with his pants down in a dark alley. Captain America wins this 9/10 times.
In a straight up fight Batman gets knocked the fudge out.
With the right detective work (you know that shite Batman is supposed to do) and the element of fear and surprise (the other two things Batman does) and a gadget or two Batman wins. This is how Batman rolls. However, Captain America isn't a dumbass, and is probably not going to get caught with his pants down in a dark alley. Captain America wins this 9/10 times.
This post was edited on 4/4/14 at 12:47 pm
Posted on 4/4/14 at 12:47 pm to Scrowe
quote:
1. B 2. A 3. T 4. M 5. A 6. N
Posted on 4/4/14 at 12:52 pm to BlacknGold
quote:
ah, herein lies the problem. i now see why people become so annoyed with Batman.
Nobody's annoyed with him. I love Batman. TAS is probably my favorite cartoon of all time. BB and TDK were awesome. I love the comics. Robin in his various forms is awesome. The Joker is awesome. Batman is full of awesome stuff. (Bruce himself kind of sucks, so there's that).
quote:
like i mentioned, this is probably due to the character being in so other accessible material like movies, cartoons, and games. its really not like that in the comics.
Naa, there's never enough Batman. It's too bad BvS looks like it will suck so far. But I do like Affleck.
quote:
eta: stripping characters down to their physical abilities isnt a poor debate,imo. in this case, Goddamn Plastic Man would beat both Batman and Captain America.
No one wants to strip anything down.
You don't have to strip anyone down. All Batman fans have to admit is that a plan will only get you so far. That's it. A plan doesn't automatically win. A plan isn't and can't be "perfect."
That's precisely why I linked the Black Panther fight. Look at what he thinks. That's why Cap wins, he instinctively changes his approach as BP changes his...therefore, a plan doesn't really matter.
See the classic Batman argument is that "Ah, but Batman will KNOW that Captain America will adapt instinctively and will use THAT against him, turning the fight around."
And that's, well, dumb.
Let's look at another one:
"I've seen him fight dozens of time...studied his moves...there are no movies, it's just one move from start to finish."
This post was edited on 4/4/14 at 12:55 pm
Posted on 4/4/14 at 1:00 pm to Muahahaha
From Wiki:
Physical Condition -
Captain America...
Batman...
Fighting Style-
Captain America...
Batman...
Weapons-
Captain America...
Batman...
Other-
Captain America...
Batman...
Tale of the tape?? Probably closer fight than most think.
Physical Condition -
Captain America...
quote:
Olympics-level athleticism, and peak human physiological conditioning
Batman...
quote:
Peak physical and mental conditioning
Fighting Style-
Captain America...
quote:
Master martial artist, agility expert, tactician, and marksman
Batman...
quote:
Master martial artist, acrobat, detective, escapologist, strategist, swordsman, tactician, and marksman
Weapons-
Captain America...
quote:
Wields vibranium-steel alloy shield
Batman...
quote:
Use of high-tech equipment, weapons, armors, & gadgets
Other-
Captain America...
quote:
Excellent field commander
Batman...
quote:
Genius-level intellect
quote:
Master of stealth
quote:
Master of disguise
quote:
Highly proficient with technology
quote:
Access to vast wealth and criminal records
quote:
Trained computer hacker
quote:
Photographic memory
Tale of the tape?? Probably closer fight than most think.
Posted on 4/4/14 at 1:10 pm to Darkknight
I know it is piling on but I can't express how much I hate DC's tendency to make everyone a genius
Apparently he's not just a top tier physical specimen born to millions... he also had the time and ambition to become Steven Hawking on the side.
Apparently he's not just a top tier physical specimen born to millions... he also had the time and ambition to become Steven Hawking on the side.
Posted on 4/4/14 at 1:12 pm to Barrister
quote:
Batman. Bats would've already studied Cap and broke down ever element of his fighting style just on the 1/2 percent chance they would ever meet.
Batman has a game plan for everyone. Batman has a gameplan to take out Robin and Alfred in case they turn. That's how planned out he is. Look at all the instances of Batman looking into the weaknesses of the JL.
Yes in a wrestling or boxing match that was sanctioned, Captain America would crush Batman.
If they were to fight any other way like Captain America getting his brain taken over by the Penguin or Batman got touched by Loki's spear, then in that scenario each would anticipate a fight with the other. Captain America will leap with out looking into any trap or scenario Batman plans out.
In any scenario in which Batman anticipates any foe (even many God-like powered villains) he wins.
I think Batman has this.
Unless America get the jump on him. But the Captain was always more direct into battle, which plays up the Batman's tactics.
This post was edited on 4/4/14 at 1:19 pm
Posted on 4/4/14 at 1:17 pm to Darkknight
quote:
Physical Condition
Batman has never been noted as bench pressing 1200 pounds or running a mile in 73 seconds. That's having Cap running at almost 50 mph. Batman has never been shown doing something close to either of those physically.
quote:
Fighting Style-
Probably a wash, but the fact that Cap is faster and stronger doesn't help Batman.
quote:
Weapons-
Wash here as well. The adamantium shield pretty much nullifies anything Bats has in his utility belt.
quote:
Other-
Most of these are useless when fighting someone like Cap. Cap is used to dealing with spies and such. Computer hacking is useless in a fight against Cap. He can't drown Cap in 100 dollar bills to win from his vast amounts of wealth. His proficiency with technology is probably the only thing that stands out in the "other" category. Also Cap's intellegence level isn't that of a brutish ape that just bashes everything he sees.
Posted on 4/4/14 at 1:23 pm to Darkknight
quote:
Tale of the tape?? Probably closer fight than most think.
Eh, maybe. That list kind of sells Cap short. It doesn't list his ability to process things faster than other humans, eidetic memory, ability to master any weapon instantly, his durability, fatigue resistance, slight healing factor and resistance to diseases, gases, etc. Also, peak human in Marvel is different from "peak human" in DC terms, Maybe. Cap benches 1,200 lb. according to the books. I don't think Batman gets close to that.
Posted on 4/4/14 at 1:26 pm to Scrowe
I think Batman may find a way of taking out the shield.
okay....maybe not
quote:
In The Avengers #215–216, the Molecule Man used his total control over matter to disintegrate the shield, along with Thor's hammer, Iron Man's armor, and the Silver Surfer's board. After he does so, he comments that the board's molecules are "weird", and while there are "odd forces interweaving" among the hammer's molecules, the shield is "weirdest of all". He later reassembles these items, with the exception of the armor, as the electronic circuits are too complicated for him to understand.
quote:
In Avengers Vol. 3 #63 (March 2003), the Odinforce, wielded by an enraged Thor, dents the shield. Thor later repairs it.
quote:
During the 1984-1985 Secret Wars limited series, the shield is partially destroyed by Doctor Doom, who has stolen the power of the godlike being known as the Beyonder. Even broken, Rogers is able to wield what is left as an effective weapon, with the shield largely retaining its balance when thrown. When the Beyonder reclaims its power, the heroes are temporarily granted the ability to realize their wishes. Rogers uses this to reconstruct the shield
okay....maybe not
Posted on 4/4/14 at 1:31 pm to Freauxzen
quote:
Cap benches 1,200 lb. according to the books. I don't think Batman gets close to that.
Batman damn sure doesn't get close to running at 50 mph...
Posted on 4/4/14 at 1:31 pm to Muahahaha
I am no fan of Captain America, but he would kick Batman's arse
Posted on 4/4/14 at 1:43 pm to molsusports
quote:
I hate DC's tendency to make everyone a genius
I agree, but as with everything else, Marvel is just as bad. I think 9 of the top 10 smartest in the MU are almost all superheroes, with only one being a villain. (Dr. Doom). Not just genius', but the smartest people in the world.
Posted on 4/4/14 at 1:47 pm to Darkknight
quote:
Marvel is just as bad. I think 9 of the top 10 smartest in the MU are almost all superheroes, with only one being a villain. (Dr. Doom).
In fairness, the reason they are superheroes is because they are geniuses. Most of MUs genius/superheroes were exposed to something that gave them superpowers in a lab or science related program.
DCs are because, well, frick it. Why not?
Posted on 4/4/14 at 1:51 pm to Darkknight
There are way more geniuses and scientists in marvel as a Whole than DC. It seemed everyone was a master of some science or create something amazing.
Posted on 4/4/14 at 1:52 pm to magildachunks
quote:
In fairness, the reason they are superheroes is because they are geniuses. Most of MUs genius/superheroes were exposed to something that gave them superpowers in a lab or science related program.
Yup. Reed, Doom, Pym, Stark, Banner, T'Challa, McCoy, MODOK, Leader, maybe Sinister?
quote:
DCs are because, well, frick it. Why not?
Like I said in the other thread: Shazam's S is for instantly infinite intelligence. Why? Superman, Wonder Woman. Etc. Just instant intelligence.
I mean, in the context of this thread, Batman should be a genius, it's part of his thing. It's the rest that are a problem.
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