re: Wheel of Time - Season 1 - Amazon - NOW A BOOK READERS THREAD

quote:

---

Again tell me you haven’t read the books without telling me. Moiraine and Siaun were pillow friends as Novices and Accepted. That isn’t new.

---

My wife was shocked they put that in there and I said it wasn’t actually new wholeness being inserted. That was actually in the source material.

They weren’t sexual at the time of the book unless memory is failing me.

To wit, direct quotes from New Spring:

“They were going to be sharing that bed, and Siuan knew exactly which ticklish spots could reduce her to helpless laughter and pleading.”

“How close she and Siuan had been was no one’s business but theirs… There were things one talked about, and things one did not!”

Robert Jordan’s own notes confirm they were lovers at one time, for many years. I can quote that too if you want.

Anything else?

There’s a non book reader thread and a middle ground one. Stick to those.

In fairness he is somewhat correct. They were pillow friends in the past, but their is nothing indicating they still are while she is Amyrlin. My issue with it is this, because the Amyrlin is above personal relationships like this. She is of all Ahjas. She is equal with all.

Both can be true that they once were lovers but not any longer since she became Mother.

quote:

---

They went down on each other in the show.

---

I never saw tongue in snatch on my TV....so in every sense of the word it was insinuated on the show as well.

I get it. I don’t think they should have made them current lovers but I understand why they did and why it makes sense narratively.

I also think Rafe just can’t help himself and has an obvious agenda, but it also works narratively and it doesn’t bother me.

quote:

---

I get it. I don’t think they should have made them current lovers but I understand why they did and why it makes sense narratively.

I also think Rafe just can’t help himself and has an obvious agenda, but it also works narratively and it doesn’t bother me.

---

Agreed, especially about Rafe.

They could have played Moirraine and Suian's meeting as wanting to rekindle their romance but the politics and responsibilities of their positions forbade it. This sets them up as allies while underscoring their personal sense of honor and responsibility by being willing to sacrifice their intimacy with one another for the greater good of the Tower (in Suian's case) and the search for the true Dragon Reborn (in Moirainne's case).

This willing avoidance of giving in to desire adds a whole other level of tension for the viewer.

A moment's last look of longing, of unrequited love, between Suian and Moirraine after the rest of the Sisters turned their backs and just before Moirainne turns to leave would have made for a far more emotional scene for the viewers.

But then Rafe doesn't seem to understand playing the long game with relationships. See: Lan & Nynaeve.

quote:

---

Rafe doesn't seem to understand playing the long game with relationships. See: Lan & Nynaeve.

---

Lan and Nynaeve was done so poorly in the books. I think it’s much better in the show especially given they only have 8 episodes.

quote:

---

Doesn't she betray that in the books with their secret plans for the Dragon Reborn and how she lets Moraine get away with things a normal Amyrlin Seat wouldn't.

---

Sort of, yes. But this is due to the necessity in ensuring the DR prophecy plays out. The Amyrlin puts personal feelings and relationships aside due to her duties. She must remain neutral with AeiSedai. You see Siuan change once she was deposed, and you see Egwyn change as well once she is raised. Duty to the tower comes first.

Regarding the show I think it's unnecessary addition for the sake of showing support to the gay community. I don't have an issue with the "pillow friends" aspect of the story overall, but the problem here is that it undermines the importance of the Amyrlin and contradicts her commitment to duty.

With that said I feel it's a minor gripe. There are more egregious things being done in this series that this is just a mere annoyance. For the record I tapped out after Ep5, so I am strictly going off the argument here and what I am reading in this thread.

I have enjoyed following the discussions here, but I tapped out after episode one, as both a "book-nazi" and because it just didn't look very compelling from an attempted open-minded "give it a chance, it might just be good story-telling" point of view.

I keep hoping to find here reason to try again, but so far, I doesn't sound like I'm missing much.

Perhaps we are past the point where we should even bother to attempt to reconcile the show with the books, or keep count of the in-your-face SJW moments, but regarding the extension into adulthood of the pillow-friends relationship, which offends both points of view, it also bodes poorly regarding a future relationship with Thom, which would be a shame.

I think Morraine knows she will be with Thom before the first book begins. She tells Rand/Matt in EoTW that she believes Thom is still alive despite his having charged a half-man when last seen. She confesses that Min had previously foreseen future interactions between Thom and the whole group, in a way that on reread clearly includes Morraine herself.

Their relationship happened thereafter in mostly unspoken, between the lines, ways. They were both masters of dar demais(sp?), and could say or hear a mouthful without a word.

Their "confrontation" in Tear, playing their cards regarding what each knew about the other's sometimes checkered past and ongoing political machinations, was a brilliantly written scene with two skilled masters carefully and deftly expressing mutual professional and personal, even romantic, admiration.

I get a chill imagining a talented film-maker motivated to develop the characters that would deserve a scene like that. I am grateful that I will never see the "improved" version.