re: Unforgiven - was Little Bill pretty much in the right?

I believe that this well thought out discussion just confirms my opinion that Unforgiven is the greatest western of all time and one of the best movies ever. Such a nuanced & complex film.

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No she didn't.

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Yes, she did.

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She decided giving Skinny some horses wasn't good enough.

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So the next step is to put a bounty out on the cowboys and mark them for death? If I had been Clint Eastwood, I would have grabbed Frances Fisher after I had killed Little Bill and shot her in the back of the head.

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So the next step is to put a bounty out on the cowboys and mark them for death?

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The lack of respect obviously pushed her further and she couldn't really put a bounty out to get someone to come to town to whip the guys.

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If I had been Clint Eastwood, I would have grabbed Frances Fisher after I had killed Little Bill and shot her in the back of the head.

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That's dumb, the whores didn't do him anything while Little Bill killed and displayed his friend.

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So the next step is to put a bounty out on the cowboys and mark them for death? If I had been Clint Eastwood, I would have grabbed Frances Fisher after I had killed Little Bill and shot her in the back of the head.

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I think Fisher was Eastwood's main squeeze at the time, so that wasn't going to happen in this movie. It's probably why she was given so much "acting" to do. I love Eastwood's work but he did have a bit of a habit of putting his women in his movies, sometimes to the detriment of the movie. At least we were spared Sondra Locke in this one.

Munny:who owns this shithole?

Bartender: I own this establishment

Munny: *bang!*

Little bill:"youre one cowardly sonofabitch. You just shot an unarmed man!"

Munny:"Well he should've armed himself if he was gonna decorate his saloon with my friend"

Little bill: your William munny out of Missouri, you've killed women and children

Munny: that's right. I've killed just about anything that's ever walked or crawled on this earth, and now I'm here to kill you little bill.

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Eastwood was clearly who the audience was rooting for IMO.

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Of course, and we are conditioned to root for Eastwood - especially after he appears to be righting a wrong (for pay of course).

But Eastwood in the brilliant script goes out of his way to make what his character is doing and who he is - probably isn't someone we should be rooting for.

He takes a contract without thinking much about it but for the money...he has a terrible history where his wife's family disowned her for marrying a murderer and drunk.

Compare to Pale Rider.

Eastwood wants us to be conflicted and he knows we will instinctively root for him - so he goes out of his way to constantly remind the audience that he's a despicable character.

The only salvation is that we learn he changed his ways but then goes back to his old ways when push comes to shove.

I love the scene where the Kid rebuffs Will and his supposed hero and what he thought was what he was supposed to be.

The writer in the movie is sort of the old western motiff and the glamorization of Western gunslingers in movies. He's a symbol of past movies.

Not only does the kid rebuff Will and his ways...Clint himself rebuffs the writer and the attempted glamorization of what he had just done to all the people in the Saloon.

I think Clint is telling the audience, I'm no hero...and rides off to no fanfare but simply the resignation that he is who he is...and we can't run from our past.

That is one of the most alpha scenes in movie history. I like at the end when Beauchamp asked him about the order, like there's a science to being a skilled gunfighter. There's no science or art to it. Munny is just good at killing.

Little Bill was a Little Bitch the way he beat English Bob. After that it was clear to me that Munny was the good guy.

Do a Prequel and call it "Forgiven" since his wife forgave him and set him on the right track. That would be a cool movie, show the baddass side of Muny and his gang.

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Eastwood was clearly who the audience was rooting for IMO. They talked about killing (too much at times maybe) but he didn’t act line a villain during the movie.

At the end when he first appears in the saloon door he looks like Death come to town.

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Without a doubt Eastwood's finest movie. This is without a doubt the best western in the history of the genre. Hackman's character was obviously the bad guy, but Eastwood was not a good guy. The only good guy in the entire picture was Morgan Freeman's character. There rest were all bad guys.

That scene in the saloon was bad arse. You knew he was finally going to become a killer to take out a more evil character. When he asked the Kid for the his Scofield and the bottle of booze. The Kid being scared of him after that set the mood for the end. Best end to a Western ever!