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Message
re: Star Wars Episode 8: The Last Jedi Discussion Thread ***SPOILERS***
Posted on 12/19/17 at 6:29 pm to Walking the Earth
Posted on 12/19/17 at 6:29 pm to Walking the Earth
quote:
The third movie in this cycle is in 2019 and you won't wait more than three years after that for a new trilogy to fire up and show us all that everything in this trilogy accomplished jack shite.
The only problem here is if the same group of Disney Execs are involved in producing this, theyre all going to be shite... Lucas needs to step aside, and let the writers and directors, who know the historical storyline, and obsess over every minute detail, take the ball and run with it. For the record, I'd love to see Adam Driver replaced, I dont think he brings anything to these films
This post was edited on 12/19/17 at 6:34 pm
1
Posted on 12/19/17 at 6:35 pm to OchoDedos
Forgive me for a rant but these movies were never about the big three. They were never intended to be about the big three. The big three being in them was a bridge. It’s a transition.
A part of me wanted super Luke but what was done was super interesting and not terribly divergent from OT Luke. OT Luke was a bit whiney until ROTJ and it is consistent with his character that when everything went to shite he went to an island to be a bitter old man. Our head canon was that he went their to regroup and become more powerful.
He didn’t.
What was done with him wasn’t satisfying in the hero sense but it was interesting as hell. His running away and going to the first Jedi temple taught him that the Jedi has misinterpreted the Force and what it is.
The fact that we didn’t get a Snoke origin is fine because in Empire we didn’t get anything on Palpatine. We didn’t even know his name was Palpatine.
The last installment might answer all of these questions.
Just breathe.
This was a layered, complex and awesome movie.
Yes, the casino planet sucked and Finn/Rose sucked.
As a 70’s kid, Star Wars is a very significant part of my life and I understand the anger regarding how our heroes have been treated. It hurts a little bit if you look more than an inch deep, it’s very interesting what is being done.
TL/DR
ETA: Finn/Rose can die in a fire.
A part of me wanted super Luke but what was done was super interesting and not terribly divergent from OT Luke. OT Luke was a bit whiney until ROTJ and it is consistent with his character that when everything went to shite he went to an island to be a bitter old man. Our head canon was that he went their to regroup and become more powerful.
He didn’t.
What was done with him wasn’t satisfying in the hero sense but it was interesting as hell. His running away and going to the first Jedi temple taught him that the Jedi has misinterpreted the Force and what it is.
The fact that we didn’t get a Snoke origin is fine because in Empire we didn’t get anything on Palpatine. We didn’t even know his name was Palpatine.
The last installment might answer all of these questions.
Just breathe.
This was a layered, complex and awesome movie.
Yes, the casino planet sucked and Finn/Rose sucked.
As a 70’s kid, Star Wars is a very significant part of my life and I understand the anger regarding how our heroes have been treated. It hurts a little bit if you look more than an inch deep, it’s very interesting what is being done.
TL/DR
ETA: Finn/Rose can die in a fire.
Posted on 12/19/17 at 7:45 pm to Scoop
Here comes a rant that I wasn't sure needed its own thread, Both TFA and this movie clearly took a lot from Avatar: The Last Airbender, and the later didn't follow through with anything great it did. There's spoilers for both here, but I will be intentionally somewhat vague for both.
First off Abrams himself wrote an episode of the show, so he is definitely familiar with it. Secondly TFA and the first season are very similar, but I put that more off to Avatar ripping off Star Wars in the first place. If you want to boil down what Avatar is, it is Star Wars set in Miyazaki Middle Earth. So it makes sense here why there would be remarkably similarities, but there's more.
Now Kylo Ren and Zuko are basically the same character except Kylo Ren is willing to do horrible things that Zuko isn't. So both series take off on the same note, in that the villain comes to a small village looking for the all powerful master that they are obsessed with, it's only one massacres it and the other does not. Rey is also a combination of Aang and Katara as characters, although I do think that Nausicaa was a primary influence on all 3 said characters. Katara grew up in similar circumstances as Rey, but in a tundra instead.
So the characters go on a journey, with the villain ruthlessly pursuing them. Eventually Kylo/Zuko get their target and take them to an ice world. There's a major battle between them in the snow, with the villain losing to an inferior opponent who has only recently discovered their powers. Both movies end with the main villain of the franchise wanting Kylo/Zuko to return to basically be reprimanded and there is an optimistic outlook for the rebellion.
So with the sequel the titles are pretty much the same, so that made me do a bit of a double take when you see the similarities. A large portion of the plot is the protagonist being taught by a true master. And in TFA it's set up that Kylo will be trained further in the Dark Side, which happens with Zuko as well... oh wait we're going to abandon that plot with Kylo.... so good job with the parallel training despite that being promised as cliffhanger. OK, so we can skip this because Avatar did better.
And anyway the heroes and antiheroes are on the run from the bad guys throughout the stories, except one makes sense, and the other doesn't. Throughout the story you see the lead female start to bond with the male antagonist from a distance, and it leads to betrayal from the villain at the end. How? Well in Avatar it leads to a massive duel where the main characters are almost killed. In The Last Jedi? Just they explode a lightsaber and Rey has no part in the finale. So do you mean to tell me it's largely coincidence you designed a crystal mine in TLJ, when all you do is fly through it in the exact same manner as TFA for 15 seconds? Are you sure this wasn't meant for maybe a bigger climax point, like say when Rey faces down Kylo Ren? Seems familiar, like the final encounter in Avatar:
That is bizarrely the same environment, only one is green and the other red. On top of that you have a massive drill/cannon attacking a Wall to destroy the Resistance:
In Avatar, the main character is seemingly mortally wounded in the fight, barely survives, and the enemy wins the war with only a few dozen left who can oppose the enemy. What happens with the main character in TLJ? She has no active role in the finale. She just shoots and lifts some rocks, and I see no reason why you can't write around that. The enemy takes as big of a hit as they do and who cares what happens at this point? Am I supposed to fear Kylo Ren, since he's only gotten his arse kicked every time instead of beating Rey at least once?
And there are other parts such as the ruling class and horrible superiors in the war that don't know what they are doing that are similar, but I've made my point. It's just the movie fails where the show absolutely succeeds.
First off Abrams himself wrote an episode of the show, so he is definitely familiar with it. Secondly TFA and the first season are very similar, but I put that more off to Avatar ripping off Star Wars in the first place. If you want to boil down what Avatar is, it is Star Wars set in Miyazaki Middle Earth. So it makes sense here why there would be remarkably similarities, but there's more.
Now Kylo Ren and Zuko are basically the same character except Kylo Ren is willing to do horrible things that Zuko isn't. So both series take off on the same note, in that the villain comes to a small village looking for the all powerful master that they are obsessed with, it's only one massacres it and the other does not. Rey is also a combination of Aang and Katara as characters, although I do think that Nausicaa was a primary influence on all 3 said characters. Katara grew up in similar circumstances as Rey, but in a tundra instead.
So the characters go on a journey, with the villain ruthlessly pursuing them. Eventually Kylo/Zuko get their target and take them to an ice world. There's a major battle between them in the snow, with the villain losing to an inferior opponent who has only recently discovered their powers. Both movies end with the main villain of the franchise wanting Kylo/Zuko to return to basically be reprimanded and there is an optimistic outlook for the rebellion.
So with the sequel the titles are pretty much the same, so that made me do a bit of a double take when you see the similarities. A large portion of the plot is the protagonist being taught by a true master. And in TFA it's set up that Kylo will be trained further in the Dark Side, which happens with Zuko as well... oh wait we're going to abandon that plot with Kylo.... so good job with the parallel training despite that being promised as cliffhanger. OK, so we can skip this because Avatar did better.
And anyway the heroes and antiheroes are on the run from the bad guys throughout the stories, except one makes sense, and the other doesn't. Throughout the story you see the lead female start to bond with the male antagonist from a distance, and it leads to betrayal from the villain at the end. How? Well in Avatar it leads to a massive duel where the main characters are almost killed. In The Last Jedi? Just they explode a lightsaber and Rey has no part in the finale. So do you mean to tell me it's largely coincidence you designed a crystal mine in TLJ, when all you do is fly through it in the exact same manner as TFA for 15 seconds? Are you sure this wasn't meant for maybe a bigger climax point, like say when Rey faces down Kylo Ren? Seems familiar, like the final encounter in Avatar:
That is bizarrely the same environment, only one is green and the other red. On top of that you have a massive drill/cannon attacking a Wall to destroy the Resistance:
In Avatar, the main character is seemingly mortally wounded in the fight, barely survives, and the enemy wins the war with only a few dozen left who can oppose the enemy. What happens with the main character in TLJ? She has no active role in the finale. She just shoots and lifts some rocks, and I see no reason why you can't write around that. The enemy takes as big of a hit as they do and who cares what happens at this point? Am I supposed to fear Kylo Ren, since he's only gotten his arse kicked every time instead of beating Rey at least once?
And there are other parts such as the ruling class and horrible superiors in the war that don't know what they are doing that are similar, but I've made my point. It's just the movie fails where the show absolutely succeeds.
This post was edited on 12/19/17 at 7:46 pm
Posted on 12/19/17 at 9:44 pm to Scoop
quote:Gonna reply here, in part because people are mixing us up. We're different people
Scoop
Scoop, you sound like I did when the buzz started wearing off, and I began to accept Episode 1 wasn't great
quote:Holding the line, and yet acknowledging there were pointless things, but maybe the next movie can correct it.
The last installment might answer all of these questions.
Just breathe.
This was a layered, complex and awesome movie.
quote:Beginning to concede points.
Yes, the casino planet sucked and Finn/Rose sucked.
I get it, I wanted this to be great too. Just like I wanted the prequels to be; I remember talking with friends prior to Ep 1, and we were pumped up. I mean, Lord of the Rings was great, but just wait until you see what Star Wars with more mature CGI was going to be. That was the theme then, that Lucas wouldn't be limited by models, he'd be free to show us everything. It would be mind-blowing.
Except it wasn't.
And this movie was bad, and settles in worse than you expect.
Posted on 12/19/17 at 9:55 pm to Scoob
quote:
Just like I wanted the prequels to be; I remember talking with friends prior to Ep 1, and we were pumped up. I mean, Lord of the Rings was great, but just wait until you see what Star Wars with more mature CGI was going to be
Ep 1 came out 2 years before LOTR.
Posted on 12/20/17 at 12:15 am to OMLandshark
I actually really enjoyed it.
I hear the gripes, and some are legit, but I was thoroughly entertained throughout the movie.
I hear the gripes, and some are legit, but I was thoroughly entertained throughout the movie.
Posted on 12/20/17 at 2:19 am to Mystery
FYI, Rogue One has a file named hyperspace tracking when Jyn finds the Stardust file.
Posted on 12/20/17 at 6:11 am to DelU249
The big dumb things have been covered.
Here are some subtle things that were over the top that could have helped the movie, to me:
Instead of throwing the saber over the shoulder, how about we just drop it to the ground in a more emotional way?
Instead of showing several different porgs staring at chewie about to eat, let’s show the one crying one for a second and chewie throwing the meat over his shoulder in disgust. The joke was obvious from the beginning. They ran it into the ground.
What’s the point of the chandelier foxes? Poe didn’t know their names but they all knew the take cover inside the base where the humans were taking cover? They were distracting and finding a back way out could have been found easier.
The drunk patron in the casino puts one coin in bb8. Ok. Haha. A second. Ok we get it. Then it has to burp in his face. Enough. This is a example of too much in your face, childish humor like the prequels. Humor like you typically found in these movies was the Walker driver saying “yes sir right away” after Kylo throws that guy into the side of the cockpit. It’s more subtle. My 2 cents.
The story of anyone can be attuned to the force and getting away from mostly skywalkers is fine. The main focus of Star Wars is not the skywalkers. It’s the force. It’s good force guys versus bad force guys with some military backing of each.
Here are some subtle things that were over the top that could have helped the movie, to me:
Instead of throwing the saber over the shoulder, how about we just drop it to the ground in a more emotional way?
Instead of showing several different porgs staring at chewie about to eat, let’s show the one crying one for a second and chewie throwing the meat over his shoulder in disgust. The joke was obvious from the beginning. They ran it into the ground.
What’s the point of the chandelier foxes? Poe didn’t know their names but they all knew the take cover inside the base where the humans were taking cover? They were distracting and finding a back way out could have been found easier.
The drunk patron in the casino puts one coin in bb8. Ok. Haha. A second. Ok we get it. Then it has to burp in his face. Enough. This is a example of too much in your face, childish humor like the prequels. Humor like you typically found in these movies was the Walker driver saying “yes sir right away” after Kylo throws that guy into the side of the cockpit. It’s more subtle. My 2 cents.
The story of anyone can be attuned to the force and getting away from mostly skywalkers is fine. The main focus of Star Wars is not the skywalkers. It’s the force. It’s good force guys versus bad force guys with some military backing of each.
Posted on 12/20/17 at 6:13 am to JabarkusRussell
Did they not track the falcon through hyperspace once it escaped with leia in the first movie?
Easy you call that easy. They’re tracking us. Not this ship sister. Etc etc. ?
Easy you call that easy. They’re tracking us. Not this ship sister. Etc etc. ?
Posted on 12/20/17 at 6:20 am to L5UT1ger
I don’t know if it’s been covered, as I read only like 25 pages but:
Leia surviving and floating in space was dumb not just visually. She uses a force that surrounds us, penetrates us, combines all living things to move in a vacuum where there are no living things to surround vine, etc. I was no science major, but this just seems weird.
If being in an enormous explosion and sucked out into space can’t kill you, I’m not sure what can, other than a broken heart, smh.
Leia surviving and floating in space was dumb not just visually. She uses a force that surrounds us, penetrates us, combines all living things to move in a vacuum where there are no living things to surround vine, etc. I was no science major, but this just seems weird.
If being in an enormous explosion and sucked out into space can’t kill you, I’m not sure what can, other than a broken heart, smh.
This post was edited on 12/20/17 at 6:21 am
Posted on 12/20/17 at 7:34 am to L5UT1ger
Look, this movie did what the first JJ Abrams Star Trek movie did . . . move the story in a different direction so that younger actors (those that will be around for awhile) can take over the franchise. To hell with what we think. It is all about $$ and soaking as much cash as it can out of you, me, and our children for decades.
Disney hired the best people they can to (off-camera) do this. It doesn't matter what the old story was about (the Skywalkers), it is all about doing SOMETHING to keep the money flowing.
I get it. I laughed at George Lucas and how bitter he was (about the story) after he sold off his rights. I get it now. Sorry George.
Disney hired the best people they can to (off-camera) do this. It doesn't matter what the old story was about (the Skywalkers), it is all about doing SOMETHING to keep the money flowing.
I get it. I laughed at George Lucas and how bitter he was (about the story) after he sold off his rights. I get it now. Sorry George.
This post was edited on 12/20/17 at 7:36 am
Posted on 12/20/17 at 8:34 am to Bham4Tide
Audience score drops to 55% and rotten tomatoes is saying the score is authentic
Posted on 12/20/17 at 8:34 am to Sentrius
Saw this last night. Oof, what a mess.
My friends told me it was bad. I thought that was because they were bigger SW nerds than I am. I got through the first 10-15 minutes, and I was feeling really optimistic!
Then, Leia in Space... and I thought of my SW nerd friends and just thought...
I think the worst part of this movie is that it could have been great. The plot itself wasn't terrible, just poorly executed. I hope the "Rose" character is killed off-screen to save us from seeing her again.
As for Episode 9... I expect it to take place 5-10 years after the events of TLJ, and focus on a legitimately large-scale civil war.
My friends told me it was bad. I thought that was because they were bigger SW nerds than I am. I got through the first 10-15 minutes, and I was feeling really optimistic!
Then, Leia in Space... and I thought of my SW nerd friends and just thought...
I think the worst part of this movie is that it could have been great. The plot itself wasn't terrible, just poorly executed. I hope the "Rose" character is killed off-screen to save us from seeing her again.
As for Episode 9... I expect it to take place 5-10 years after the events of TLJ, and focus on a legitimately large-scale civil war.
Posted on 12/20/17 at 8:44 am to RuLSU
Another melt that hit me this morning:
Death Star tech being the biggest threat to the “rebels” again? AGAIN??? A.G.A.I.N.!!!!???
Speaking of which, when did they become “rebels”? Isn’t the republic still technically in charge? And, if not, HOW? Did wiping out the First Order’s Largest Weapon make them an unstoppable conquering force in the LITERAL 15 seconds between TFA and TLJ? (As seen by the immediate lightsaber toss). How much time passed in that first scene on the island with Luke and Rey that allowed the first order to take over the galaxy?
Death Star tech being the biggest threat to the “rebels” again? AGAIN??? A.G.A.I.N.!!!!???
Speaking of which, when did they become “rebels”? Isn’t the republic still technically in charge? And, if not, HOW? Did wiping out the First Order’s Largest Weapon make them an unstoppable conquering force in the LITERAL 15 seconds between TFA and TLJ? (As seen by the immediate lightsaber toss). How much time passed in that first scene on the island with Luke and Rey that allowed the first order to take over the galaxy?
Posted on 12/20/17 at 8:46 am to Bham4Tide
quote:
it is all about doing SOMETHING to keep the money flowing.
Sounds like the words of a man who sucks dick for crack
Posted on 12/20/17 at 8:48 am to RuLSU
quote:
I think the worst part of this movie is that it could have been great.
Easily. The core of the movie is interesting, new, well acted...but it’s 20 minutes of the movie and the rest is worse than anything in the prequels
Posted on 12/20/17 at 8:53 am to RuLSU
quote:
I think the worst part of this movie is that it could have been great. The plot itself wasn't terrible, just poorly executed.
That's how I feel about it.
I don't mind that the movie went from point A to point B... it's how it went from point A to point B that's terrible.
If you go from the opening crawl, then to the end and the result is: Rey abandons her training early to try to turn Kylo Ren but fails, Ren kills Snoke and claims his place as the supreme leader, Luke Skywalker sacrifices himself to save the last pieces of the rebellion from being killed, the rebellion is decimated and down to their last handful of members including Rey, Poe, Finn, and Leia.
That's a solid middle piece of a trilogy... they just went full retard in between the beginning and the end.
Posted on 12/20/17 at 8:57 am to L5UT1ger
quote:The difference is that Tarkin/Vader put a tracking device on the Falcon while it was in the hanger bay of the Death Star. Tarkin mentions it and tells Vader he is taking a big risk by doing this.
Did they not track the falcon through hyperspace once it escaped with leia in the first movie? Easy you call that easy. They’re tracking us. Not this ship sister. Etc etc. ?
Unless there in a First Order spy within the Resistance, they had no way of placing a tracker on the cruiser and were tracking it some other way. If it had been a tracking device that was on the cruiser, they could have just tried to find it and destroy it as opposed to sneaking onto Snoke's flagship to disable the tracking device there.
Posted on 12/20/17 at 8:59 am to RuLSU
quote:
I think the worst part of this movie is that it could have been great. The plot itself wasn't terrible, just poorly executed.
Yeah, the core is fantastic, which is why I think there needs to be some reshoots and just release it next Christmas. Really all you need back are Mark Hamill, Daisy Ridley, Adam Driver, and Andy Serkis to make this work. Editing can do the rest.
Posted on 12/20/17 at 9:01 am to theunknownknight
quote:
Death Star tech being the biggest threat to the “rebels” again? AGAIN??? A.G.A.I.N.!!!!???
I mean, that was basically a railgun, and I'd like to think they could build a weapon like that. Then again the Resistance is basically using gas in their ships, so who the frick knows now.
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