Started By
Message

re: Let's talk about Prophecy ** Game of Thrones Spoilers**

Posted on 5/1/19 at 5:08 pm to
Posted by Green Chili Tiger
Lurking the Tin Foil Hat Board
Member since Jul 2009
50742 posts
Posted on 5/1/19 at 5:08 pm to
quote:

Arya did it with no help from anybody


Ah, now I see why you don't get it.

quote:

You are he who must stand against the Other. The one whose coming was prophesied five thousand years ago. The red comet was your herald. You are the prince that was promised, and if you fail the world fails with you.[3]


Odd that you wouldn't include the person and context that quote comes from.

quote:

You are he who must stand against the Other. The one whose coming was prophesied five thousand years ago. The red comet was your herald. You are the prince that was promised, and if you fail the world fails with you.[3]

—Melisandre, to Stannis Baratheon


quote:

Are you trying to say the prince just needed to be in the area?



I'm trying to say that according to that quote the prince "must stand against the other".

Jon did.

Danaerys did.

Hell, everyone at Winterfell did.
Posted by OMLandshark
Member since Apr 2009
120445 posts
Posted on 5/1/19 at 5:13 pm to
quote:

Jon did.

Danaerys did.

Hell, everyone at Winterfell did.


Posted by iwyLSUiwy
I'm your huckleberry
Member since Apr 2008
42409 posts
Posted on 5/1/19 at 5:24 pm to
quote:

Arya did it with no help from anybody


quote:

Ah, now I see why you don't get it.


Arya got hellp from "no one" is the better answer
Posted by Green Chili Tiger
Lurking the Tin Foil Hat Board
Member since Jul 2009
50742 posts
Posted on 5/1/19 at 5:32 pm to
quote:

But, it's not Arya just because she knifed the Night King, that I'm certain of.




I agree. And it wouldn't be Jon if he had killed the Night King either. Or Daenerys.

Killing the Night King was never part of the prophecy.
Posted by Mystery
Member since Jan 2009
9089 posts
Posted on 5/1/19 at 5:52 pm to
I included that quote because I mistook you for that guy who was trying argue the darkness was not the others but Cersei.

quote:

and the darkness shall flee before him.


The prince is the person who will defeat the others. Not the person who helped defeat the others.
Posted by Green Chili Tiger
Lurking the Tin Foil Hat Board
Member since Jul 2009
50742 posts
Posted on 5/1/19 at 5:54 pm to
quote:

and the darkness shall flee before him.



The darkness didn't flee before anyone.
Posted by Mystery
Member since Jan 2009
9089 posts
Posted on 5/1/19 at 5:57 pm to
The darkness is gone. Arya killed it.
Posted by OMLandshark
Member since Apr 2009
120445 posts
Posted on 5/1/19 at 6:03 pm to
quote:

I agree. And it wouldn't be Jon if he had killed the Night King either. Or Daenerys.

Killing the Night King was never part of the prophecy.


Yeah, I’m sure it was referring to Cersei, a self righteous idiot who armed a bunch of tyrannical theocrats that everyone on the planet told her was a bad idea, and then had to have shite flung at her naked in the streets. Ohhhhh, scary.
This post was edited on 5/1/19 at 6:32 pm
Posted by jrodLSUke
Premium
Member since Jan 2011
26286 posts
Posted on 5/1/19 at 6:25 pm to
It’s Jons army; his forces defeated the Night King. Jon is the Prince that was Promised.

Arya is not a prince, nor did she fulfill the prophecy. She was the instrument of death, and served at the pleasure of King Aegon.
Posted by SabiDojo
Open to any suggestions.
Member since Nov 2010
84435 posts
Posted on 5/1/19 at 6:27 pm to
Isn’t it Dany’s army? He pledged fealty to her.
Posted by Green Chili Tiger
Lurking the Tin Foil Hat Board
Member since Jul 2009
50742 posts
Posted on 5/1/19 at 6:27 pm to
quote:

Yeah, I’m sure it was referring to Cersei, a self righteous idiot who armed a bunch of tyrannical theocrats that everyone on the planet told her was a bad idea,


What are you babbling about?
Posted by jrodLSUke
Premium
Member since Jan 2011
26286 posts
Posted on 5/1/19 at 6:29 pm to
Jon convinced Dany to fight his war. He bent the knee, but she join his army to fight his enemy.
Posted by OMLandshark
Member since Apr 2009
120445 posts
Posted on 5/1/19 at 6:30 pm to
What Darkness is left? It sure as shite isn’t Cersei. If Euron is as he was in the books, then maybe, but certainly not washed up Jack Sparrow. The Darkness was extinguished by Arya.
Posted by Green Chili Tiger
Lurking the Tin Foil Hat Board
Member since Jul 2009
50742 posts
Posted on 5/1/19 at 6:30 pm to
quote:

Isn’t it Dany’s army? He pledged fealty to her.




aaaaannnd we're right back where we started with the Azhor/Prince Prophecy.

Which is my point. Before the battle everyone thought it referred to on of those two.

It still does.
Posted by OMLandshark
Member since Apr 2009
120445 posts
Posted on 5/1/19 at 6:31 pm to
quote:

Before the battle everyone thought it referred to on of those two.

It still does.


How? They didn’t do that much in the battle itself.
Posted by Green Chili Tiger
Lurking the Tin Foil Hat Board
Member since Jul 2009
50742 posts
Posted on 5/1/19 at 6:35 pm to
quote:

What Darkness is left?
quote:

What Darkness is left? It sure as shite isn’t Cersei.


You're completely missing the point. The prophecy never says that Azhor/The Prince single-handedly defeats the darkness.

It says vague shite like he will "lead the forces of light" or "stand against the darkness" or "the darkness will flee before him".

That still applies to either Jon or Dany.

The army would not have been there if not for those two.

Arya would not have been there if not for Jon.

The dragons would not have been there if not for Dany.

Beric would not have been there if not for Jon.

Melisandre would not have been there if not for Jon and/or Dany.
Posted by OMLandshark
Member since Apr 2009
120445 posts
Posted on 5/1/19 at 6:40 pm to
quote:

You're completely missing the point. The prophecy never says that Azhor/The Prince single-handedly defeats the darkness.

It says vague shite like he will "lead the forces of light" or "stand against the darkness" or "the darkness will flee before him".


Why can’t Davos be the Prince that was Promised? He’s the one that gathered Jon’s army for him. Why not Jorah? Dany would be long dead without him. Why not Tyrion? He brought everyone together. Hey if it weren’t for Grey Worm leading the Unsullied, they all would have died.

With your line of reasoning, literally everyone is the Prince that was Promised.
Posted by jrodLSUke
Premium
Member since Jan 2011
26286 posts
Posted on 5/1/19 at 7:07 pm to
quote:

With your line of reasoning, literally everyone is the Prince that was Promised.

Except that none were a Prince. None built the army. None lead the army. They weren't born amidst salt and smoke. They weren't heralded by a bleeding star. None are Ice and Fire.

The only one that fits is prophesy is Jon. The only one that is the Song of Ice and Fire is Jon. Jon lead the fight, and it was his instrument of death (Arya) that ended the war.

Or maybe Dany.

I pick Jon.
Posted by TeLeFaWx
Dallas, TX
Member since Aug 2011
29311 posts
Posted on 5/1/19 at 7:10 pm to
Let's look at the Azor Ahai/forging of Lightbringer prophecy and the prophecy Daeny received in the House of the Undying. These two prophecies, even if they haven't been spoken about in the show explicitly, are in play.

Azor Ahai/Lightbringer:

quote:

To fight the darkness, Azor Ahai needed to forge a hero's sword. He labored for thirty days and thirty nights until it was done. However, when he went to temper it in water, the sword broke. He was not one to give up easily, so he started over.


What's is Arya? A Water Dancer. She killed the Night King with her water dance, but it wasn't enough to rid evil from the world. This couldn't be more obvious.

quote:

The second time he took fifty days and fifty nights to make the sword, even better than the first. To temper it this time, he captured a lion and drove the sword into its heart, but once more the steel shattered.


This is obviously a Lannister, and this is obviously Tryion because we never saw they end of his conversation with Cersei. Ridding Westeros of underhanded feudal politics won't be enough to rid darkness from the world, so Azor Ahai must continue trying to rid the world of darkness.

quote:

The third time, with a heavy heart, for he knew beforehand what he must do to finish the blade, he worked for a hundred days and nights until it was finished. This time, he called for his wife, Nissa Nissa, and asked her to bare her breast. He drove his sword into her living heart, her soul combining with the steel of the sword, creating the weapon known as Lightbringer.


Jon kills Daeny, for whatever reasons are revealed in the next 3 episodes.

Now let's look at Daeny's prophecy from the House of the Undying:

quote:

"three fires must you light, one for life and one for death and one to love . . . three mounts must you ride, one to bed and one to dread and one to love . . . three treasons will you know, once for blood and once for gold and once for love . . ."


Now this "for love" treason could be Tyrion or Jon, but either way, it's for the person committing treason is doing it for love, so Tyrion for his House, or Jon for the realm/Starks is pretty fitting here. I don't think anyone else committing treason to Daeny at this point is even "great".

Hell, Tyrion is probably committing treason for gold, as in a golden lion, the Lannisters. Sansa foreshadowed his dual loyalties in his hypothetical marriage to Sansa in their discussion in the crypts, saying it would be split between Daeny and Sansa. In reality, his loyalties are split between his family and something else(Daeny, himself, the realm, Jaime, his family, whatever). After the season is over, on rewatches that line will be significant in soooo many ways. And if Tyrion does betray Daeny for "gold", then who is left to betray her? Jon. Only Jon.

3 fires to light:

- For life: to make the dragons.
- For death: to kill the Dothraki widows, or whoever else the dragons kill.
- For love: burning Jorah's body? Burning down King's Landing for her love of the Throne?

3 mounts to ride:

- To bed: Drogo because she needed to make a child and begin her journey.
- To dread: Daario because she dreaded how he loved her but she was just fricking him for pleasure. Or maybe her dragons because she was causing the realm dread every time she jumped on Drogon?
- To love: Either her dragons because she loved them, or Jon.

3 treasons she will know:

- For blood: the witch that betrayed her for vengeance.
- For gold: Tyrion for his gold colored family. Or possibly already Jorah but that doesn't seem as prophecyish and too obvious.
- For love: Jon loves something greater than her, either the realm or the his family. Even Varys might fit this loosely.


Analysis:

They are aware of these prophecies. Jon born under the star when they zoom in on Dayne's sword wasn't just an accident. So they could be giving slight nods to the prophecy for book readers without coming out right and saying it, but either way it's integral to the story.

Everyone acts like because Arya killed the Night King, that Azor Ahai/The Prince That Was Promised/Nissa Nissa/Lightbringer is out the window. That's dumb. It's all still in play. Darkness wasn't just the Night King, is the misery of the realm. Evil and darkness isn't just an ice zombie. It's the politics, it's the brutal existence, it's the greed, it's the corruption, it's everything. How has everyone missed that?

The plot will mirror the grand scheme of GRRM's plan, and GRRM will absolutely make the prophecies fit in a variety of unexpected ways. He's already said so. Something like "for gold" being the color of Lannister and not actual gold is a perfect example. Money is the obvious reason for betrayal, but prophecies love to be vague and subvert the obvious. You think the "for gold" betrayal is out of the way with Jorah betraying Daeny for money, but you don't realize that a bigger treason for metaphorical "gold" is still to come.

Alternative Ending:

The one glimmer of hope that I am holding out hope for is that the "bittersweet" part that many have said the ending will have is realized in the "her soul combining with the steel of the sword" part. Since it's highly unlikely that Jon will take a literal sword, Daeny will willingly bare her actual breast, and her soul will literally combine with an actual sword, there is a metaphor here.

Possibly that metaphor is that Daeny dies in childbirth. The Lightbringer that is created is her and Jon's child/children. Her own body could be the one committing treason, and it's for the love of her child.

However, the "asked her to bare her breast" part and the "with a heavy heart, for he knew beforehand what he must do" part, really just means to me that he knows he has to kill her, and he has her trust and gets close to kill her(the treasonous action), since it's a conscious action of sacrifice and treason that's being described. That doesn't fit well with childbirth.
Posted by Green Chili Tiger
Lurking the Tin Foil Hat Board
Member since Jul 2009
50742 posts
Posted on 5/1/19 at 7:11 pm to
quote:

With your line of reasoning, literally everyone is the Prince that was Promised.




1. It's not my line of reasoning, it's the prophecies.

2. All those other people are missing everything else from the prophecies.
first pageprev pagePage 4 of 5Next pagelast page

Back to top
logoFollow TigerDroppings for LSU Football News
Follow us on X, Facebook and Instagram to get the latest updates on LSU Football and Recruiting.

FacebookXInstagram