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re: Legalities aside, why shouldn’t we complete “A Song of Ice and Fire”?
Posted on 8/7/25 at 1:29 pm to iwyLSUiwy
Posted on 8/7/25 at 1:29 pm to iwyLSUiwy
quote:
Nah, don't like that at all. Although I'd be fine getting ANY ending, but that would be way down on my list of things I'd want to happen. Just above Bran becoming king.
Who would you like to see on the Iron Throne at the end? Jon does seem to be the obvious choice.
4
Posted on 8/7/25 at 1:34 pm to Dire Wolf
Frey pie served fresh every evening
Posted on 8/7/25 at 1:35 pm to iwyLSUiwy
quote:
No. She is still at the house of black and white training with the faceless man. She just got her sight restored when the book ended. She is actually a warg in the books as well.
Of the main characters, Arya is the one that I have the least idea on where her character is actually going. I don’t think Arya is going to kill basically everyone like she does on the show, but I still don’t know where exactly to put her in the endgame. I always foresaw her killing Varys, but that’s about it.
Posted on 8/7/25 at 1:37 pm to OMLandshark
quote:
Who would you like to see on the Iron Throne at the end?
Hot Pie
Bran would be fine if they set it up better.
Posted on 8/7/25 at 2:10 pm to OMLandshark
quote:
Jon does seem to be the obvious choice
He's perfect really. One of the few people who doesn't WANT it. The moral embodiment of Ned Stark, the guy we were rooting for at the beginning. Even if they framed it as Him being king as a kind of punishment or burden of responsibility just like RB laid on Ned it would have made PERFECT GODDAMN SENSE JESUS CHRSIT
Posted on 8/7/25 at 2:24 pm to OMLandshark
quote:
Who would you like to see on the Iron Throne at the end? Jon does seem to be the obvious choice.
Jon was the only Arthurian style hero anywhere in Martin's universe. He was either going to kill him off in dramatic fashion or eventually let him develop into that hero. If you wanted to end the story with a 'happy ending', I think it's Jon's to turn down. Martin, however, doesn't strike me as someone who likes heroes in any traditional sense and I think he enjoyed killing off Jon Snow and leaving it hanging out there. Despite his talent, Martin strikes me as kind of a wretched, bitter sort. I think the real hero in his mind was Tyrion and I could see him either sitting on the throne or being the real power behind a puppet.... which is sort of the Bran ending, I guess.
Posted on 8/7/25 at 3:02 pm to OMLandshark
quote:
I’m personally starting to come to the conclusion that there should be no one sitting on the Iron Throne at the end and that the Seven Kingdoms all revert back to being their own kingdoms at the very end of the story.
I think the story of the world as a whole essentially points to that as the 'lesson'... anytime there is absolute power you will have people who are bad people (or turn into bad people) wielding that power eventually. But that there will always be someone sitting on an "iron throne" of some kind. But the series always forces you to take your medicine... bad things happen, people die, and the cycle of kings and rulers will continue on forever.
Posted on 8/7/25 at 3:10 pm to OMLandshark
quote:
Who would you like to see on the Iron Throne at the end? Jon does seem to be the obvious choice.
Of all the die hards posting in the crackpot thread I think I was one of the few that wanted a happy ending and liked Dany. I personally really liked her character in the books so selfishly wanted her to be on the throne. Ultra happy ending would be Dany and Jon.
Non selfish happy ending, I was also fine with Dany going mad queen. Hopefully it would be in a different way and for a different reason than the show. Not a "I've already had sex with you but I don't want to have sex with you anymore bc you're may aunt." "O you don't want to have sex with me anymore I'm going to kill everyone" route. Preferably not have Jon kill her in that manner either. I'd rather them battle it out.
In order of preference I'd probably go:
1. Dany/Jon
2. Dany
3. Jon
4. Varys
5. Stannis
6. Aegon/Griff (if legitimate)
7. Cersei
8. Euron
Posted on 8/7/25 at 3:42 pm to OMLandshark
The publisher is leaving so much money on the table catering to GRRM. He is never going to finish the books. That’s fine. Buy the rights to the universe from him. Tell him no other writer can directly use any POV character other than interacting with new characters. All other characters in the series are fair game. Allow one book to come out at a time, and that becomes Canon and that writer owns his new POV characters in that universe.
In other words, a new character can witness the burning of kings landing, and even talk to Dany, but it can’t be told from Dany’s POV because that is GRRMs voice.
Arya could roll up and stab the POVs friend but we may never know why.
There are many ways to do this, I want GRRMs lawyers.
In other words, a new character can witness the burning of kings landing, and even talk to Dany, but it can’t be told from Dany’s POV because that is GRRMs voice.
Arya could roll up and stab the POVs friend but we may never know why.
There are many ways to do this, I want GRRMs lawyers.
Posted on 8/7/25 at 7:12 pm to OMLandshark
In my honest layman’s opinion, dealing with Cersei after the Night King was always fricking lame and a let down.
In my personal rewriting, Dany and Jon deal with Cersei first.
Then they get their asses kicked all the way down south until making a last stand around Harrenhall or somewhere around there. The long winter has set in, fricking spiders the size of dogs are invading and all sorts of supernatural shite. It’s like -30 below and dark everywhere the Night King has conquered. And this takes places over months. Westeros is just bleeding men and resources, things are truly dire.
Then Jon truly becomes Azor Ahai and they beat him with the help of the dragons and everyone else in the whole world. Make it a true underdog story, frick Cersei being the final bad, it was always meant to be the Others and the Night King.
In my personal rewriting, Dany and Jon deal with Cersei first.
Then they get their asses kicked all the way down south until making a last stand around Harrenhall or somewhere around there. The long winter has set in, fricking spiders the size of dogs are invading and all sorts of supernatural shite. It’s like -30 below and dark everywhere the Night King has conquered. And this takes places over months. Westeros is just bleeding men and resources, things are truly dire.
Then Jon truly becomes Azor Ahai and they beat him with the help of the dragons and everyone else in the whole world. Make it a true underdog story, frick Cersei being the final bad, it was always meant to be the Others and the Night King.
Posted on 8/7/25 at 10:42 pm to Frac the world
quote:
In my honest layman’s opinion, dealing with Cersei after the Night King was always fricking lame and a let down.
In my personal rewriting, Dany and Jon deal with Cersei first.
Personally I think Cersei should be dead before Dany ever steps foot on Dragonstone. I think Varys/fAegon takes care of Cersei before she’s either on Dany or Jon’s immediate mind. Cersei will continue to lose her mind over the prophesy of the Valonqar and the Queen more fair than she is.
I think she’ll get cocky and deal with Margeary at the beginning of the WoW, only for younger more beautiful queens to reveal themselves, first with Arianne marrying fAegon, then with Littlefinger crowning Sansa as Queen in the North and openly betraying Cersei, and finally a letter from her brother Tyrion that he’s joined Daenerys as Hand of the Queen, that a Lannister always pays his debts, and that he is coming to take everything from her.
So Sansa and Littlefinger are way too far away for Cersei to do anything about and while fAegon may be on her doorstep, she arrogantly believes that she will be victorious against him and Arianne because Dany is clearly the beautiful queen coming to kill her since she’s with Tyrion.
I think she’ll will be betrayed by the City Watch, Faith Militant, and the commoners of King’s Landing in general who will let in fAegon’s army into the city towards the end of the novel. I think Cersei will demand that Qyburn to lit the wildfire caches, and then tell Robert Strong to lock her and Tommen in the throne room only allowing Jaime past him so that they can die together.
Meanwhile Jaime is actually with fAegon who has agreed to spare Tommen’s life and make him Tommen Lannister, Lord of Casterly Rock and Warden of the West (especially after Myrcella is killed). Jaime is led into the Red Keep by Varys who tells him what Cersei is up to and gloating about it. No matter what fAegon has promised, Varys is not willing to let Tommen live. On the way to the throne room, Jaime intercepts Qyburn and kills him before he can light the wildfire.
Cersei poisons Tommen on the Iron Throne similar to how she attempted to do in the show (and GRRM wrote the episode), and Jaime walks in the second Tommen drops dead. Cersei being completely delusional at this point, is overjoyed to see Jaime thinking he’s here to die with her. Jaime instead asks her if she knows why he actually killed Aerys. She would say for the family, and Jaime would say No.
As he explains why to her, she will slowly realize that Jaime is the Valonqar that is here to kill her and that she has turned into Aerys. As one last knife in the gut, Jaime taunts Cersei that he secured Tommen’s life and birthright to Casterly Rock, and then he strangles her to death. As soon as Cersei drops dead, the side doors open with Aegon’s forces and Varys who then alleges that Jaime murdered the King and Queen Regeant.
That’s my hopes for Cersei at least. Dead right towards the end of WoW.
quote:
it was always meant to be the Others and the Night King.
The Night King’s existence in the book (at least as he is on the show) is questionable and there’s no evidence he exists. I’d rather replace him with say Euron if possible and I think Bloodraven is a much, much darker character in the books than in the show.
Posted on 8/8/25 at 7:52 am to Frac the world
quote:
In my honest layman’s opinion, dealing with Cersei after the Night King was always fricking lame and a let down. In my personal rewriting, Dany and Jon deal with Cersei first. Then they get their asses kicked all the way down south until making a last stand around Harrenhall or somewhere around there. The long winter has set in, fricking spiders the size of dogs are invading and all sorts of supernatural shite. It’s like -30 below and dark everywhere the Night King has conquered. And this takes places over months. Westeros is just bleeding men and resources, things are truly dire. Then Jon truly becomes Azor Ahai and they beat him with the help of the dragons and everyone else in the whole world. Make it a true underdog story, frick Cersei being the final bad, it was always meant to be the Others and the Night King.
all of this! Instead we have a cozy fire sit around straight out of a shitty CW show and a fight against the Night King and White Walkers equivalent to the 24 hours of Le Mans. Complete and utter bullshite. End a season with all hope essentially being lost and the final season being the long and drawn out months to defeat them.
This post was edited on 8/8/25 at 7:55 am
Posted on 8/8/25 at 8:07 am to OMLandshark
quote:
Bran becoming King at the end, and I fully believe that GRRM has already written this scene in the books
Of course it is.
It’s not a coincidence that Bran is the first pov chapter in the series.
Posted on 8/8/25 at 9:03 am to Philzilla2k
quote:
Of course it is.
It’s not a coincidence that Bran is the first pov chapter in the series.
People always like to mention this and it's always been kind of silly to me. Like it's always made out to be some big surprise that the first chapter starts with Bran. Even if it is Bran, "I will make the FIRST chapter about the person that ends up on the throne!! Muahahaha" is not something a brilliant writer (when he writes) like Martin has as some got ya moment.
Posted on 8/8/25 at 9:30 am to OMLandshark
Let AI take a shot at doing it.
The results can’t be much worse than what aired on HBO.
The results can’t be much worse than what aired on HBO.
Posted on 8/8/25 at 12:44 pm to OMLandshark
I asked who ends up on the iron throne if ChatGPT wrote a song of ice and fire and it said no one ends up taking because the throne is melted down. And then asked ChatGpt what happens to Bran in its version of a Song of Ice and Fire?
In my version of A Song of Ice and Fire, Bran Stark’s story wouldn’t end with him on the Iron Throne — because that would contradict almost everything his arc stands for. Here’s what I’d do with him:
?? Bran the Greenseer, Not Bran the King
By the end, Bran fully becomes the last greenseer, more akin to a spiritual guardian or ancient force than a political ruler. His humanity gradually fades as he merges with the Weirwood network and the collective memory of Westeros.
?? What That Looks Like:
Bran retreats north of the Wall (or deep into the Heart of the Forest), far from the realms of men.
He becomes something like a living myth — a seer and watcher who guides people through visions and whispers in dreams, but doesn’t interfere directly.
His role is not to rule, but to remember. He guards the memory of the world, so its mistakes aren’t repeated.
?? Why This Works:
Bran’s arc is about transcendence, not leadership. From the moment he falls and begins having visions, he’s been moving away from human concerns like vengeance, power, or politics. His transformation into the Three-Eyed Raven is a loss as much as a gain — of self, of family, of emotion.
Giving him the throne, like in the show, reduces his character to a plot device: “he knows things, so let him rule.” But knowing the past doesn’t mean you can lead a fractured kingdom.
?? Final Scene?
Bran is shown through someone else’s dream — maybe Arya’s, or a future child’s — as a boy sitting beneath a vast white tree, eyes white with power, whispering stories no one remembers. Not a king. A keeper.
In my version of A Song of Ice and Fire, Bran Stark’s story wouldn’t end with him on the Iron Throne — because that would contradict almost everything his arc stands for. Here’s what I’d do with him:
?? Bran the Greenseer, Not Bran the King
By the end, Bran fully becomes the last greenseer, more akin to a spiritual guardian or ancient force than a political ruler. His humanity gradually fades as he merges with the Weirwood network and the collective memory of Westeros.
?? What That Looks Like:
Bran retreats north of the Wall (or deep into the Heart of the Forest), far from the realms of men.
He becomes something like a living myth — a seer and watcher who guides people through visions and whispers in dreams, but doesn’t interfere directly.
His role is not to rule, but to remember. He guards the memory of the world, so its mistakes aren’t repeated.
?? Why This Works:
Bran’s arc is about transcendence, not leadership. From the moment he falls and begins having visions, he’s been moving away from human concerns like vengeance, power, or politics. His transformation into the Three-Eyed Raven is a loss as much as a gain — of self, of family, of emotion.
Giving him the throne, like in the show, reduces his character to a plot device: “he knows things, so let him rule.” But knowing the past doesn’t mean you can lead a fractured kingdom.
?? Final Scene?
Bran is shown through someone else’s dream — maybe Arya’s, or a future child’s — as a boy sitting beneath a vast white tree, eyes white with power, whispering stories no one remembers. Not a king. A keeper.
Posted on 8/8/25 at 1:11 pm to Iron Lion
quote:
A large portion of that show was some of the best anything that's ever been on television..
Agreed. That's what makes the last couple of seasons, particularly the final season, such a tragedy that everyone is angry about and will be forever.
Posted on 8/8/25 at 2:03 pm to UnluckyTiger
I kind of agree with that from ChatGDP, except I was thinking Bran would merge with the Weirwoods on the Isle of Faces where he would defeat Bloodraven through a psychic network. After defeating the Others, Bran would become a primordial God that is protected.
Additionally, if Bran’s endgame takes place on the Isle of Faces, the Trident is directly north of it. The Others will just go around Harrenhall if Jon and Dany set up their final battle with the Others there, but won’t be an option on the Trident.
Additionally, if Bran’s endgame takes place on the Isle of Faces, the Trident is directly north of it. The Others will just go around Harrenhall if Jon and Dany set up their final battle with the Others there, but won’t be an option on the Trident.
Posted on 8/8/25 at 2:53 pm to iwyLSUiwy
quote:
a brilliant writer
You sure he’s a brilliant writer?
He’s good at character, maybe, his prose has improved over his career, but he still repeats phrases ad nauseam, but the dude still can’t untangle the Meereenese Knot.
Benioff and Weiss figured that out. It was clunky as hell and no one here has ever considered them brilliant. But they still did it.
A brilliant writer who doesn’t seem to want to write.
ASOIAF - unfinished
Fire and Blood - unfinished
Dunk and Egg - unfinished
I don’t know, I think his career will be re-examined in the future.
I think it’s a LOTRs homage with rape, masquerading as some gritty fantasy.
It has a dark lord for crying out loud.
Posted on 8/8/25 at 3:08 pm to Philzilla2k
quote:
You sure he’s a brilliant writer?
Yes.
quote:
Benioff and Weiss figured that out. It was clunky as hell and no one here has ever considered them brilliant. But they still did it.
Yea I'm not putting dumb and dumber in the same category as GRRM, that's just ridiculous.
quote:
A brilliant writer who doesn’t seem to want to write.
ASOIAF - unfinished
Fire and Blood - unfinished
Dunk and Egg - unfinished
Never excused his laziness. I can't stand the dude. I've had a disdain for him for quite some time. He's a POS. But that doesn't change the fact that what he has put out, has been great.
He's one of the greatest living fantasy writers. That is virtually impossible to argue. Fantasy is a thriving genre and thankfully there are quite a few very proficient fantasy authors that finish their stories, but just because GRRM hasn't (and won't) finished his story, doesn't mean what has already been written wasn't brilliant.
quote:
I don’t know, I think his career will be re-examined in the future.
Ok.
quote:
I think it’s a LOTRs homage with rape, masquerading as some gritty fantasy.
It has a dark lord for crying out loud.
If we are discrediting fantasy authors for having homages to Tolkien then we might as well never give any fantasy author any credit from here to eternity. that's not a negative.
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