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3
Posted on 7/27/18 at 6:04 am to Pectus
Bobcat is one of the best - love that guy (non homo)
Posted on 7/27/18 at 6:12 am to Pectus
He’s right, but they opened this box.
Posted on 7/27/18 at 10:01 am to Scruffy
quote:
He’s right, but they opened this box.
Pretty much my take as well. Either you have completely free speech, or you don't. There really can't be any lines drawn, because no one will ever agree where they are to be drawn.
You can see it here with comedy as people argue over what is and is not "across the line." As soon as we start talking about lines, we need to realize we have two choices. Accept everything and only enjoy or listen to what you like and avoid the others, or stifle it all. Otherwise, you have Group A deciding that what Group B likes is over the lines and then Group C telling Group A the thing they like crosses a line, etc. It'll never end.
I've seen your take on this and agree. It's all stupid, but this really does seem like it's going to have to take down a ton of people on the side that kind of started this trend before enough people stand back and realize this is just no way to live. Until then, there's going to be mayhem as whiny fricks continue to look for smaller and smaller grievances to complain about...making everyone a potential offender.
Posted on 7/27/18 at 10:21 am to GeauxTigerTM
quote:
You can see it here with comedy as people argue over what is and is not "across the line."
I think there's also a perceived difference between what actual comedians are allowed to say and what general creators and entertainers can say (especially outside of their work). I was listening to some old Patton Oswalt CDs and thinking that if half of the stuff he was saying was on someone's Twitter feed, they'd be in deep shite.
Posted on 7/27/18 at 10:48 am to Fewer Kilometers
quote:
I think there's also a perceived difference between what actual comedians are allowed to say and what general creators and entertainers can say
Well, I think the difference is they're just better at it. James Gunn seems like an a-hole if you follow his social media accounts. I don't really do Twitter as I think it's possibly the worst thing to happen to humanity in the past 60 years...but I enjoy Instagram. I enjoyed GOTG and Gunn tends to post stuff about goings on behind the scenes and info about the series so I followed him. But he's also SUPER political, which is not why I follow him. and even if I agreed with his politics more, I'd find his takes and tone obnoxious. My point there is that even while no longer going for shock value on Twitter, he's still obviously a tool.
But yeah...reading what he wrote back then it's obvious he's fricking around. The issue is that he's not funny while doing in and it's just stupid. I think most comedians see that stuff and cringe but they see it for what it is...a very lame attempt at a "joke." People looking to get offended, and in Gunn's case as a way to shut his mouth, see it as some sort of weird admission of his own guilt o something.
But your point ought to be well taken. Entertainers should be smart enough to stay in their lanes. Much like a regular person should never be dumb enough to heckle a seasoned comic because they are going to get eviscerated, run f the mill entertainers should not try and be funny...because they probably aren't.
quote:
I was listening to some old Patton Oswalt CDs and thinking that if half of the stuff he was saying was on someone's Twitter feed, they'd be in deep shite.
Of course! I was listening to Jeff Garlin On Rogan's podcast yesterday and I always find it funny listening to comedians talk about how much difficulty they have being around non-comedians because regular people don;t ever get they're off color comments. Garlin joked that the average American would lose their minds if they ever heard a recording of a bunch of comedians sitting around talking to each other.
Posted on 7/27/18 at 11:22 am to GeauxTigerTM
quote:
Either you have completely free speech, or you don't. there really can't be any lines drawn, because no one will ever agree where they are to be drawn.
You can see it here with comedy as people argue over what is and is not "across the line." As soon as we start talking about lines, we need to realize we have two choices. Accept everything and only enjoy or listen to what you like and avoid the others, or stifle it all. Otherwise, you have Group A deciding that what Group B likes is over the lines and then Group C telling Group A the thing they like crosses a line, etc. It'll never end.
Are you saying people should be able to speak explicitly of their, for example, child rape fantasies and not expect any repercussions?
Should they be able to write romance novels that glorify pedo relationships and not expect to be rejected by society for it?
Isn’t y’alls argument just an argument for a complete lack of standards of decency and judgement?
People are always going to draw lines about what is and isn’t acceptable. It’s part of being human.
And I am so tired of people trying to make this into a righty version of SJW-ism. SJWs aren’t wrong because they want to enforce standards of decency; they’re wrong because their standards are unreasonable, arbitrary, and constantly changing.
They are trying to make things off limits that were just normal opinions ten years ago. Those James Gunn jokes are not the same thing; stop conflating them.
quote:
. Until then, there's going to be mayhem as whiny fricks continue to look for smaller and smaller grievances to complain about...making everyone a potential offender
AFAIK my “side” in this discussion, is only being like this about pedophila. It’s not like every lefty who openly slanders, ridicules, mocks Christianity, or rednecks, or Trump voters, or traditional families, or stay at home moms, or white people, etc has to worry about some witch hunt.
This is a response to a specific thing. You’re not a “potential offender” unless you make a bunch of jokes that make it seem like you either fantasize about raping kids or at least find it funny.
Tl;dr y’all are using a false equivalency that falls apart when you look specifically at what both sides are reacting to. We are neither faking outrage nor being outraged by stuff that normal people don’t consider outrageous.
This post was edited on 7/27/18 at 11:37 am
Posted on 7/27/18 at 11:48 am to uway
quote:I don't see what that has to do with this situation.
Are you saying people should be able to speak explicitly of their, for example, child rape fantasies and not expect any repercussions?
Should they be able to write romance novels that glorify pedo relationships and not expect to be rejected by society for it?
I mean, do you think when Johnny Cash wrote songs about killing a "guy in Reno just to watch him die," he actually did that?
He didn't.
That's why he wasn't arrested or hated by society.
My last point is this video:
South Park Scene
Should Trey Parker and Matt Stone be rejected and ostracized from society?
Posted on 7/27/18 at 11:48 am to uway
The issue here is that Disney is supposed to be a family friendly company. When one of their top directors makes a bunch of pedophile jokes it makes them look bad. Trump bashing is one thing because Disney is a leftist company but they can't allow all the pedo stuff.
Posted on 7/27/18 at 1:05 pm to Hoodoo Man
quote:
I mean, do you think when Johnny Cash wrote songs about killing a "guy in Reno just to watch him die," he actually did that?
He didn't.
That's why he wasn't arrested
Gunn wasn’t arrested either. Bill of Rights protects us from the government coming after us for saying outlandish stuff. It does NOT prevent private companies terminating folks for saying outlandish stuff.
Posted on 7/27/18 at 1:10 pm to STEVED00
You're kinda missing the forest for the trees.
Posted on 7/27/18 at 2:50 pm to Pectus
He thinks this is all cooked by politics? It is motivated by politics but they still have to find stuff to bring up. Politics didnt make James Gunn tweet out perverted jokes about children.
Posted on 7/28/18 at 2:41 pm to Hoodoo Man
Actually you are. Cash’s whole deal was that he was an outlaw of sorts and his label was definitely down with that image. Gunn writes and directs GOTG movies for the company who’s bread and butter is family friendly fun.
All that said, talking about murder is way more socially acceptable than pedophilia as James Gunn understands now.
All that said, talking about murder is way more socially acceptable than pedophilia as James Gunn understands now.
Posted on 7/28/18 at 5:07 pm to Hoodoo Man
quote:
Gunn wasn’t arrested either. Bill of Rights protects us from the government coming after us for saying outlandish stuff. It does NOT prevent private companies terminating folks for saying outlandish stuff.
quote:Well, the issue is that Gunn did a lot of tacky, trashy and offensive (to some) stuff in the past, which was already common knowledge.
You're kinda missing the forest for the trees.
He did Troma films, he did Lollipop Chainsaw (a raunchy video game), etc.
The posts in question were from 2008 and 09.
He did all of that BEFORE he did the first Guardians film in 2014.
I think a sufficient response from Disney would have been
"we are aware of the comments Mr Gunn made on social media a decade ago. We have discussed this matter in depth with him, and based on our conversations and investigation into the matter, we feel these statements are exactly as he claimed: attempted jokes made in poor taste, of an offensive manner, which he has since repeatedly apologized for.
We at Disney have made in clear in no uncertain terms that any such remarks are unacceptable and would result in the termination of his employment with the company, which he has accepted. He has also decided that in the face of such public scrutiny that he will speak out publicly on the topic, to address that such topics, even in jest, are harmful to the community".
So that would have been a public scolding, and then some probable charity contributions and fund-raisers.
Posted on 7/30/18 at 11:52 am to Scoob
The cast just released a statement:
Posted on 7/30/18 at 11:58 am to ell_13
I hope they all sit out of the movie until he's brought back
Posted on 7/30/18 at 1:32 pm to ell_13
That was a great statement.
I fully agree with it.
I hope they hold those same opinions in every situation like this.
If not, disregard Scruffy’s earlier comments.
I fully agree with it.
I hope they hold those same opinions in every situation like this.
If not, disregard Scruffy’s earlier comments.
Posted on 7/30/18 at 1:45 pm to Scruffy
quote:It's a pretty neutral, well-written response that should be supported by both "sides". It helps that those who signed are not all hardcore left.
I hope they hold those same opinions in every situation like this.
Posted on 7/30/18 at 2:03 pm to ell_13
Posted on 7/30/18 at 2:03 pm to ell_13
quote:Agreed.
It's a pretty neutral, well-written response that should be supported by both "sides". It helps that those who signed are not all hardcore left.
I just like consistency.
That is how both sides should view this, but it is much more fun for bored douchebags to destroy individuals to feel important.
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