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Hollywood's resistance to giving the audience what they want...

Posted on 10/6/24 at 7:13 am
Posted by StansberryRules
Member since Aug 2024
5222 posts
Posted on 10/6/24 at 7:13 am
The best example I can think of in recent history of a big budget movie just totally going all in to give audiences exactly what they want is Top Gun Maverick and it melted box office records.

The audience makes it loud and clear what they want with certain high profile IPs and yet Hollywood goes out of their way to "subvert expectations" to deconstruct, to tamper with source materials, etc.

The creatives either have contempt for the audience or have massive egos and think theses movies are their own personal art house films.

This has been going on for way, way, way too long. Why haven't financial considerations ultimately won out? Why haven't the people with billions of dollars on the line stepped in and demanded creatives that arent actively sabotaging the financial success of the project?
Posted by SouthEasternKaiju
SouthEast... you figure it out
Member since Aug 2021
47232 posts
Posted on 10/6/24 at 7:23 am to
quote:

financial considerations


Investors.

Those who fund the studios are basically playing with globalist money. it's a massive vanity project, like Bezos and his Rings of Power disaster.

We've seen some pushback, like the delaying (cancelling) of projects by Disney or the outright shelving of movies like Batgirl by WB.

But it needs to happen much more.
Posted by tide06
Member since Oct 2011
23398 posts
Posted on 10/6/24 at 8:41 am to
quote:

Those who fund the studios are basically playing with globalist money.

100%
quote:

it's a massive vanity project

No, that money has strings attached. Either the story fits their approved narrative arcs and is executed by people they approve or it never sees the light of day.

Politics has infested every single facet of our society because we are in a cold civil war being waged between globalists and traditionalists/nationalists/non-woke for who will control our culture moving forward with an equal population of people trapped in the middle who just want to be left alone with their smartphone.
Posted by Freauxzen
Washington
Member since Feb 2006
38672 posts
Posted on 10/6/24 at 9:26 am to
Because it isn't about art anymore and is more about social programming.
Posted by ThoseGuys
Wishing I was back in NC
Member since Nov 2012
2627 posts
Posted on 10/6/24 at 9:42 am to
Look at the directors picked to helm these projects. The same thing happened in comics. We've been telling the minorities and LGBT community that if they want representation they should do it themselves. So they flood into these professions, inject it into every project they can get greenlit and we as the public act surprised.

Don't forget that Disney originally stayed out of the Don't Say Gay bill and had even donated money to politicians that supported the bill. It wasn't until they started getting a ton of press from their employees that they suddenly turned opinion. Since then the gays in their company realized how much power we have and now every project is either a first for gay representation or the gayest ever according to the creatives.
Posted by Jay Are
Baton Rouge
Member since Nov 2014
6131 posts
Posted on 10/6/24 at 11:19 am to
Let's assume this thread was started today because people are big mad about Joker, a movie that you guys are saying refuses to give the audience what they want, and actively hates you.

What is the social programming in Joker 2? How did Todd Philips create it to be the gayest thing ever?
Posted by SammyTiger
Baton Rouge, LA
Member since Feb 2009
79453 posts
Posted on 10/6/24 at 11:35 am to
quote:

The best example I can think of in recent history of a big budget movie just totally going all in to give audiences exactly what they want is Top Gun Maverick and it melted box office records.


Top Gun

The last spider man movie was a ton of fan service

Deadpool movies are extremely fan oriented.

On one hand, people love these movies and they make a ton of money.

on the other hand people accuse them of being formulaic, boring and repetitive
This post was edited on 10/6/24 at 11:36 am
Posted by RLDSC FAN
Rancho Cucamonga, CA
Member since Nov 2008
60100 posts
Posted on 10/6/24 at 11:37 am to
quote:

On one hand, people love these movies and they make a ton of money.

on the other hand people accuse them of being formulaic, boring and repetitive


On social media, everyone screams "we want original films", but then they don't show up to watch original films. The truth is general audiences want sequels, remakes, etc.
Posted by BluegrassBelle
RIP Hefty Lefty - 1981-2019
Member since Nov 2010
108047 posts
Posted on 10/6/24 at 12:09 pm to
quote:

Deadpool movies are extremely fan oriented.


I was going to say Deadpool and Wolverine were absolutely dripping with nostalgia and fan service. That’s probably the most recent.

That said, I have larger issues with everything has to be a “blockbuster” today to be made or supported. I saw where they’ve cast Margot Robbie and Jacob Elordi for a Wuthering Height’s adaptation and it’s almost certainly going to be shitty because studios don’t want to take chances anymore.
Posted by BluegrassBelle
RIP Hefty Lefty - 1981-2019
Member since Nov 2010
108047 posts
Posted on 10/6/24 at 12:11 pm to
quote:

On social media, everyone screams "we want original films", but then they don't show up to watch original films. The truth is general audiences want sequels, remakes, etc.


It’s a bit of Catch 22 though. A lot of the theaters that would show more original films died post-COVID. Everything now has to make oodles of money for theaters because they can’t afford to take up a screen with a niche showing.

And there’s no studio promotion for those films anymore either.
Posted by LawnmowerMan
Member since Jan 2024
233 posts
Posted on 10/6/24 at 12:32 pm to
quote:

What is the social programming in Joker 2? How did Todd Philips create it to be the gayest thing ever?




You could have used a better example than a musical with Lady Gage
Posted by TigerinATL
Member since Feb 2005
62446 posts
Posted on 10/6/24 at 12:34 pm to
quote:

Why haven't financial considerations ultimately won out?


You know how corporate DEI is starting to fall out of favor? Many have linked that to the rise in interest rates. Basically with interest rates at zero money was so cheap the financial consequences of choices that might alienate some customers and/or employees were lessened.

On top of the interest rate story, Hollywood was awash in money from streamers like Netflix and Amazon. We are finally starting to see some adjustments from content companies as the financial consequences of not playing to your audience become more real.

Why is Disney is still Disneying? It sounds like Marvel has changed direction, but Kathleen Kennedy still has enough blackmail on people to maintain her control over Star Wars.

And if you believe in conspiracy theories, anyone that was anyone in Hollywood had to pass through the filter of an all controlling satanic cult of pedophiles. I'm not saying that's real, maybe it was nothing more than a casting couch situation, but there is definitely a lot of smoke to suggest a strong behind the scenes control structure in Hollywood run by people who may not have shareholder interest as their primary objective.
This post was edited on 10/6/24 at 12:35 pm
Posted by Madking
Member since Apr 2016
70810 posts
Posted on 10/6/24 at 1:24 pm to
Their funding is coming from political groups so their content reflects the propaganda being paid for and it doesn’t help when some of these studios hire nothing but people who are in lock step with that stuff.
This post was edited on 10/6/24 at 1:26 pm
Posted by GurleyGirl
Georgia
Member since Nov 2015
14571 posts
Posted on 10/6/24 at 1:58 pm to
quote:

Because it isn't about art anymore and is more about social programming.

This. The big money backers are hardcore socialist who seek to mold society into their woke image.
The last thing they want is patriotism and traditional family values.
Posted by Jim Rockford
Member since May 2011
105316 posts
Posted on 10/6/24 at 4:25 pm to
quote:

people trapped in the middle who just want to be left alone with their smartphone.


Hand raised
Posted by Bard
Definitely NOT an admin
Member since Oct 2008
59300 posts
Posted on 10/6/24 at 6:46 pm to
quote:

On social media, everyone screams "we want original films", but then they don't show up to watch original films.


What they mean is "we want good films". The problem here is that much of Hollywood considers "good" to be stories which promote their social agenda(s). It's not about the main character's personal growth, the hero's journey, etc, it's about the writers creating a character they identify with, making those characters powerful and beloved by other characters, then using them to defeat representatives of ideas/philosophies they do not like. Such a movie then primarily appeals to whatever social group of "marginalized victims" the main character represents, which is usually only a very small portion of the movie-going public.

In other words, they don't understand that their brand of storytelling is off-putting to a majority of people. They are then bewildered when their movies fail miserably at the box office.

quote:

The truth is general audiences want sequels, remakes, etc.


Again, only if they are good (see the mentions of Maverick and the Deadpool movies). When a team's primary idea of "good" storytelling is just gender-swapping the lead roles from male to female, for example, the end result is a low-quality story with no depth which appeals only (and even just "maybe") to females whose core identity is "fight the patriarchy!".

This post was edited on 10/7/24 at 8:46 am
Posted by StansberryRules
Member since Aug 2024
5222 posts
Posted on 10/6/24 at 7:10 pm to
quote:

The truth is general audiences want sequels, remakes, etc.


I think people want new, well made movies that fulfill the same basic themes and archetypes the public has always liked.

Heroes who are heroic, guy gets the girl, hunky dudes and gorgeous gals, etc.

Problem is they are f'ing with the underlying fundamentals.
Posted by Sam Quint
Member since Sep 2022
8908 posts
Posted on 10/6/24 at 7:28 pm to
quote:

On social media, everyone screams "we want original films", but then they don't show up to watch original films. The truth is general audiences want sequels, remakes, etc.

No, we just want good movies and shows. That's it. Nothing else matters. Whether it's original or a sequel or a remake, it doesn't matter. Just make something that is good. The end.
Posted by Scoob
Near Exxon
Member since Jun 2009
23553 posts
Posted on 10/7/24 at 1:50 am to
quote:

Because it isn't about art anymore and is more about social programming.

A good bit of it is, but don't underestimate this part:
quote:

yet Hollywood goes out of their way to "subvert expectations"
That's been at least as big an issue as "going woke".

I think conceptually, the idea is to tell a story the audience thinks they know, and then pull a surprise to 'keep it fresh and unpredictable', because otherwise, it's just repeating the same formula as a ton that's come before.

Game of Thrones went this way, giving us bait and switch stuff. Westworld took it to the extreme, intentionally trying to fake out the audience at damn near every level.

Ultimately, I don't think Hollywood understands or accepts that we WANT the formula. We want the hero's journey, the noble warrior, and so forth, no matter how many times it's been retold- because for each generation, it's new to them.
Posted by lsusa
Doing Missionary work for LSU
Member since Oct 2005
6294 posts
Posted on 10/7/24 at 11:39 am to
quote:

for a Wuthering Height’s adaptation and it’s almost certainly going to be shitty
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