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Posted on 10/11/20 at 8:49 pm to smash williams
Yep
Posted on 10/11/20 at 8:50 pm to RLDSC FAN
quote:
Fan reaction was mostly skeptical, with many wondering whether Cleopatra should’ve been played by an actress of color.
Twitter is just a reactionary cesspool; there is always some reaction like this because people want hits.
And they always say: "twitter reacts or fans reaction" when it's like one or two girls.
There's no evidence Cleopatra was black but if they want to cast a black actress, who cares. Hollywood has a long history of not caring about historical accuracy.
This post was edited on 10/11/20 at 8:51 pm
Posted on 10/11/20 at 8:52 pm to mizzoubuckeyeiowa
quote:
There's no evidence Cleopatra was black but if they want to cast a black actress, who cares. Hollywood has a long history of not caring about historical accuracy.
Cleopatra’s incestuous ancestry points to the contrary.
Posted on 10/11/20 at 8:56 pm to OMLandshark
quote:
In all likelihood, no they didn’t. Ptolemy and his descendants were extremely incestuous. None of (or almost none of) them before Cleopatra spoke Egyptian. Cleopatra was the first in generations to do so, if not ever. She was greatly beloved by the Egyptians for that. Plus she was in an incestuous marriage (never consummated) with her own brother.
Bama just claimed a bunch of national championships from that era.
Posted on 10/11/20 at 8:56 pm to RLDSC FAN
Honestly, people don't ACTUALLY know what Ancient Egyptians looked like. It is distinctly possible their skin tone was closer to modern Middle Eastern or Mediterranean peoples.
Everyone presumes that they looked as if traditional African skintones, but that's presumption and not proven.
Everyone presumes that they looked as if traditional African skintones, but that's presumption and not proven.
Posted on 10/11/20 at 9:02 pm to skrayper
quote:
Honestly, people don't ACTUALLY know what Ancient Egyptians looked like. It is distinctly possible their skin tone was closer to modern Middle Eastern or Mediterranean peoples.
We do know that ancient Egyptians almost certainly didn’t look like sub-Saharan Africans. They and the Carthaginians probably looked differently than any race currently around. We got to keep in mind that most people and races in human history were genocided to one degree or another. Save for spare traces, it’s an almost virtual certainty that the vast majority of modern Egyptians are not predominantly descended from Ancient Egyptians. Think about how the average American is likely to look 500 years from now? We will be unidentifiable from now and we’re already vastly unidentifiable from Americans 500 years ago.
This post was edited on 10/11/20 at 9:04 pm
Posted on 10/11/20 at 9:05 pm to RLDSC FAN
We Wuz Phaoroz
Posted on 10/11/20 at 9:07 pm to mizzoubuckeyeiowa
quote:
if they want to cast a black actress, who cares.
I mean, unlike James Bond or Nick Fury she was an actual person who was assuredly not black but sure whatever.
Posted on 10/11/20 at 9:07 pm to skrayper
quote:Doesn’t Ancient Egyptian art portray themselves and Nubians as having different skin tones anyway?
Everyone presumes that they looked as if traditional African skintones, but that's presumption and not proven.
Nubians were painted with distinctly darker skin tones.
They weren’t white, but they even made a distinction between themselves and those from the Nubia region.
This post was edited on 10/11/20 at 9:09 pm
Posted on 10/11/20 at 9:10 pm to OMLandshark
quote:
Think about how the average American is likely to look 500 years from now?
Immigration has always happened, everywhere, but probably not to the degree of the modern world just due to technology. I would expect the ancient Egyptians to not look drastically different than the berbers nowadays look. Who knows though.
Posted on 10/11/20 at 9:13 pm to Scruffy
quote:
Doesn’t Ancient Egyptian art portray themselves and Africans as having different skin tones anyway?
Nubians were painted with distinctly darker skin tones.
They weren’t white, but they even made a distinction between themselves and those from the Nubia region.
But there hasn’t been a mass genocide of Greeks and Macedonians since Alexander to where we have some idea what Cleopatra would look like (not to mention the statues of her). There has on the other hand been a mass genocide of Egyptians in that time. If 60-80% of your population has been wiped out, we don’t really save for photos know what you may have looked like. Even with the Romans, their ethnicity took a different purge where it’s estimated in Italy there were 3 slaves for every free man. What does that do to your native population over the course of 400 years? Just imagine if we lost all photographs and paintings of our own country, we enter a dark age, and Europe continues to be Islamized for 500 years. Do you think our descendants will really know what we looked like? I don’t think so.
Posted on 10/11/20 at 9:16 pm to VinegarStrokes
Absolutely disgusting
This was a role meant for Leslie Jones
This was a role meant for Leslie Jones
Posted on 10/11/20 at 9:19 pm to biglego
quote:
Immigration has always happened, everywhere, but probably not to the degree of the modern world just due to technology. I would expect the ancient Egyptians to not look drastically different than the berbers nowadays look. Who knows though.
Between the Assyrians, the Persians, the Macedonians, the Romans, and the Caliphates, Ancient Egyptians for all intents and purposes have been genocided. You have no idea how they looked 2000+ years ago save for being brown skinned. I’m fairly convinced if I plucked a person from 2000 BC Egypt and put them in modern clothing, you’d be bewildered where this person was from.
This post was edited on 10/11/20 at 9:21 pm
Posted on 10/11/20 at 9:26 pm to OMLandshark
It does not. I've researched this and there is NO evidence she was...but there is only snippets of evidence she definitely wasn't.
Evidence cited against Cleopatra having black ancestry is that the Ptolemy family was quite xenophobic—against "outsiders" including the native Egyptians they ruled for about 300 years.
When Cleopatra was taken to Rome there is no mention of her skin color in the historical record and it would have been if she were black-African.
Her ancestral record is uknown...from her paternal mother and grandmother and that's the crux. That's what people cling onto - that her grandmother or mother could've been black-African. So the speculation comes from not knowing 50% of her ancestry apart from her father's side.
She spoke Egyptian is the only argument that she was part black...but that's taking the giant leap that Egyptians were black Africans of which most trustworthy and long-standing throughout history scholars...say no.
In fact the Egyptians had a sign at the base of the Nile on the border before entering Egypt that said "no black person may enter."
So even if Cleopatra was half-Egyptian that doesn't mean she was a part black African as defined in antiquity...
Now she might be "a person of color" with traces of a mix...sounds like Gadot somewhat fits that profile.
Evidence cited against Cleopatra having black ancestry is that the Ptolemy family was quite xenophobic—against "outsiders" including the native Egyptians they ruled for about 300 years.
When Cleopatra was taken to Rome there is no mention of her skin color in the historical record and it would have been if she were black-African.
Her ancestral record is uknown...from her paternal mother and grandmother and that's the crux. That's what people cling onto - that her grandmother or mother could've been black-African. So the speculation comes from not knowing 50% of her ancestry apart from her father's side.
She spoke Egyptian is the only argument that she was part black...but that's taking the giant leap that Egyptians were black Africans of which most trustworthy and long-standing throughout history scholars...say no.
In fact the Egyptians had a sign at the base of the Nile on the border before entering Egypt that said "no black person may enter."
So even if Cleopatra was half-Egyptian that doesn't mean she was a part black African as defined in antiquity...
Now she might be "a person of color" with traces of a mix...sounds like Gadot somewhat fits that profile.
This post was edited on 10/11/20 at 9:28 pm
Posted on 10/11/20 at 9:27 pm to RLDSC FAN
I love when people, who obviously never took a history class, get mad before doing their research.
Posted on 10/11/20 at 9:30 pm to mizzoubuckeyeiowa
quote:
She spoke Egyptian is the only argument that she was part black...but that's taking the giant leap that Egyptians were black Africans of which most trustworthy and long-standing throughout history scholars...say no.
No one made note that the Egyptians were black though. They did with the Ethiopians, which makes me think the Egyptians were not. I think they were decently tan and probably didn’t look all that dissimilar from the Greeks or at most Persians.
I mean, shite, just from the story of Moses, if the Jews looked all that dissimilar from the Egyptians, then surely some fuss would have been made about that. Granted that’s the Black Hebrew Israelites argument, and that’s simply antisemitic.
This post was edited on 10/11/20 at 9:40 pm
Posted on 10/11/20 at 9:52 pm to OMLandshark
This is what people don’t understand about ancient and tons of medieval warfare: the side that lost was largely genocided and/or enslaved. Even the French living today are largely not descended from the Gauls living there 2500 years ago. Sure some of the DNA survives over slave DNA, but it is the minority and it ethnically greatly changes the country where their forebearers lived. There’s probably as much Gaulic and Celtic DNA in Italy now as there is in France and Germany despite the fact that neither are from there. It’s because they were genocided/enslaved by these civilizations. You go back 3000 years and I think the average person would be astounded on how the random person looked. Even in the Middle East, think of how many people are descended from Genghis Khan and his army. It’s almost everyone. These woke Leftists clearly don’t understand this.
Posted on 10/11/20 at 9:57 pm to OMLandshark
quote:
No one made note that the Egyptians were black though. They did with the Ethiopians, which makes me think the Egyptians were not. I think they were decently tan and probably didn’t look all that dissimilar from the Greeks or at most Persians.
Well the argument is that the ancients didn't see race like modern civilization does.
But there is historical records of historians and philosophers of antiquity definitely describing color and physical features when discussing people from different lands.
And like I said, there is evidence that the Egyptians did not want Ethiopians crossing over their border which points they saw themselves different than what we consider black-African...sub-saharan and not Northern Africa.
They say Cleopatra caused a raucous when she came to Rome but it makes no mention of her skin color.
Anyone can make an argument that she was a mix. But from her paternal ancestry there's no evidence and no likelihood that she was a black-African as is now often depicted.
So like I said, if people want her portrayed by a person "of color" - I don't see a problem with it but at best it would be some light mix.
Posted on 10/11/20 at 10:05 pm to mizzoubuckeyeiowa
quote:
Well the argument is that the ancients didn't see race like modern civilization does.
Well they didn’t see them as their chattel like Europeans 1400s onward did because they saw everyone as their chattel. But it was made clear in Roman documents that the Ethiopians were black and saw them as superior to the Gauls and Celts.
quote:
And like I said, there is evidence that the Egyptians did not want Ethiopians crossing over their border which points they saw themselves different than what we consider black-African...sub-saharan and not Northern Africa.
I’m more familiar with Roman than Egyptian history to be fair. I think from what you’re saying they somewhat align even if Romans had a higher opinion of Ethiopians than the Egyptians did.
quote:
So like I said, if people want her portrayed by a person "of color" - I don't see a problem with it but at best it would be some light mix.
I just find it ridiculous given what we know about her, her family, and her family’s opinions. It would be like a civilization 2000 years from now trying to dictate something about modern figures without photographs on something we know in all likelihood isn’t true.
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