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re: Gal Gadot cast as Cleopatra, and people aren't happy about it
Posted on 10/13/20 at 7:46 am to SlowFlowPro
Posted on 10/13/20 at 7:46 am to SlowFlowPro
quote:The Kushite occupation also occurred about 1600 years before Cleopatra lived, and as has been said, she was part of the Ptolemaic dynasty, which had only been around for about 300 years.
hat's not to say Egypt was never ruled by "black" people (quotations due to the context of this thread. certainly they were SSA). as far as i know, there was one "black" (Nubian) dynasty in egypt, the Kushite Empire. it lasted about 100 years and when they were defeated basically all remnants, monuments, etc. were destroyed. so yeah, this argument that their blood line remained within the royal lineage is...difficult.
As has also been said, Cleopatra might have been the first of her line to learn the Egyptian language, which somewhat refutes the idea that they intermarried with the local population. They slaughtered the old dynasty and aristocracy, so I doubt that the local population would have been able to provide a suitable bride or groom for the Ptolemaic rulers.
This is a coin that was minted in 32 BC by Mark Antony. His image is on the obverse side, while this reverse side depicts Cleopatra with thin lips and a hook nose. If anything, Gal Godot isn't quite Mediterranean enough for the part.
The whole "Cleopatra was black" notion comes from some archeologists who unearthed what they claimed was Cleopatra's sister, though this claim is not well supported. DNA tests were performed, and this mummy was asserted to be of "African" descent, which is a vague description in and of itself. Northern Africa was not only conquered by Alexander's armies. The Carthaginians, whose empire ran all along the north African coast, were originally Phoenicians, and they also didn't mix with the local populations.
E.g., bonus coverage, here's a coin minted during the time of Hannibal.
Posted on 10/13/20 at 3:45 pm to mizzoubuckeyeiowa
That bust was made for Cleopatra's visit to Rome.
It was made while she was there.
That is what we know.
Some say she posed for it, and she may have. . .but that is not as concrete (no pun intended)
It was made while she was there.
That is what we know.
Some say she posed for it, and she may have. . .but that is not as concrete (no pun intended)
Posted on 10/13/20 at 3:47 pm to blueboy
quote:A Pan-Africanist conspiracy nut with a loooooong history of claiming damn near every great figure in history was black.
The whole "Cleopatra was black" notion comes from
Posted on 10/13/20 at 4:06 pm to RLDSC FAN
Both were Mediterranean looking, but....
Gal Gadot is hot
Cleopatra was not:
Gal Gadot is hot
Cleopatra was not:
Posted on 10/13/20 at 4:11 pm to Navtiger1
quote:That's actually a contentious topic in history.
Greeks didn't get too hung up on gay, straight, bi
Athenians were notoriously conservative and sexually repressed. Homosexuality made you a pariah.
Sparta may have been more gay pedarasts than most,. seems likely
But the sexual mores of the era is based on a ton of huge assumptions with little and specious evidence.
Posted on 10/13/20 at 4:13 pm to tigahbruh
Sounds like they should cast Elizabeth Moss then
Posted on 10/13/20 at 4:34 pm to Breric
quote:
Sounds like they should cast Elizabeth Moss then
It would be closer to what she historically looked like for sure.
Posted on 10/13/20 at 6:31 pm to tigahbruh
You know how difficult it was to cast someone even remotely to their liking on ancient coins?
I mean...look at Ceasar...
It looks like they made the mold after he was murdered. Like they dug up his corpse to cast it.
I mean...look at Ceasar...
It looks like they made the mold after he was murdered. Like they dug up his corpse to cast it.
Posted on 10/14/20 at 12:56 am to Roaad
quote:
That's actually a contentious topic in history.
Athenians were notoriously conservative and sexually repressed. Homosexuality made you a pariah.
Sparta may have been more gay pedarasts than most,. seems likely
But the sexual mores of the era is based on a ton of huge assumptions with little and specious evidence.
I used the term Greeks loosely. There was something like 1,000 Greek city States with about 20 or so being truly relevant to history. But they all had varying degrees of suspect sexual behavior.
I wouldn't call them huge assumptions. I would say there is pretty good evidence of a lot of the sexual behavior of the ancients. Not to the degree the Romans advertised and recorded it, but the Greeks (Most) were definitely down for some freaky shite! And yes the Spartans were probably the creepiest! All though some of the other States also were down with NAMBLA.
This post was edited on 10/14/20 at 1:20 am
Posted on 10/14/20 at 7:42 am to tigahbruh
quote:
Both were Mediterranean looking, but.... Gal Gadot is hot Cleopatra was not:
No one wants an ugly Cleo at this point though.
Fascinating history conversation though.
Posted on 10/14/20 at 7:58 am to tigahbruh
quote:
Gal Gadot is hot
Cleopatra was not:
Revisionist history isn't always bad.
Posted on 10/14/20 at 8:19 am to Navtiger1
quote:I'm not saying YOU are making huge assumptions. Non-historians leaping to huge claims based on sparse evidence, even once the evidence is understood. Primarily led by bad fiction and history writers wanting to make salacious claims for commercial (and yes, sometimes political) reasons.
I wouldn't call them huge assumptions.
quote:I said that one seems likely, but even that is very contentious. We have evidence of men tried and executed in Sparta for diddling boys. . .but then probable (though still contentious) evidence of military men diddling young subordinates.
And yes the Spartans were probably the creepiest!
Most historians don't fall on either side of the camp, because clear and/or compelling evidence just does not exist.
Alexander loved his friend. We don't know if they were fricking. Maybe they were just "Shawn and Gus" or "Turk and JD" level friends. I would say Shawn loves Gus more than anyone, wouldn't you?
Posted on 10/14/20 at 8:23 am to mizzoubuckeyeiowa
Marc Antony, the most powerful man in Rome, traveled across the sea to frick her. He sacrificed his position, and relationship with Octavian for what ended up being a lover's suicide pact with Cleopatra.
Safe to say she wasn't homely, at least by the standard of her day.
Safe to say she wasn't homely, at least by the standard of her day.
Posted on 10/14/20 at 9:01 am to dawgfan24348
quote:
actress
You use that term very loosely when talking about Gadot.
Posted on 10/14/20 at 10:29 am to Ibleedblackandgold
Are you saying I can’t call Vin Diesel an actor even though he’s a shitty one?
Posted on 10/14/20 at 11:52 am to Roaad
quote:
Marc Antony, the most powerful man in Rome, traveled across the sea to frick her. He sacrificed his position, and relationship with Octavian for what ended up being a lover's suicide pact with Cleopatra.
Safe to say she wasn't homely, at least by the standard of her day.
Dont know honestly. He couldve fallen for her cause he wanted more power and she was sadistic or something.
Looks couldve been the last
Posted on 10/14/20 at 1:04 pm to stateofplay
quote:
Looks couldve been the last
I don't know, she had something going on...she seduced two of the most powerful people on the planet in Ceasar and Marc Antony and basically had them under her long nose so to speak.
quote:
Plutarch said that her charm rested in her irresistible presence, her persuasive character, and her stimulating discourse because she was highly educated and spoke many foreign languages.
quote:
Cassius Dio, who, writing in the 3rd century CE, claims that when Julius Caesar (100-44 BCE) first met Cleopatra, “she was a woman of surpassing beauty, and at the time [48 BCE], when she was in the prime of her youth, she was most stunning”
Posted on 10/14/20 at 1:09 pm to RLDSC FAN
I have to admit, I love these weird history threads that break out on here.
I think most of the people throwing tantrums over this, after having had their nose rubbed in the fact that, ethnically speaking, its pretty damn hard to tell most Israelis apart from most Egyptians are settling on it being morally wrong for an Israeli to play an Egyptian given their history of conflict.
To which I say... Where were the protests when Taika Waititi, of Russian Jewish/Maori descent who is from New Zealand, played Adolf Hitler? New Zealand fought against the Axis in World War II. You don't get much more hostility than Jews and Adolf Hitler.
I think most of the people throwing tantrums over this, after having had their nose rubbed in the fact that, ethnically speaking, its pretty damn hard to tell most Israelis apart from most Egyptians are settling on it being morally wrong for an Israeli to play an Egyptian given their history of conflict.
To which I say... Where were the protests when Taika Waititi, of Russian Jewish/Maori descent who is from New Zealand, played Adolf Hitler? New Zealand fought against the Axis in World War II. You don't get much more hostility than Jews and Adolf Hitler.
Posted on 10/14/20 at 3:02 pm to mizzoubuckeyeiowa
quote:
she had something going on
She probably did. Antony and Caesar rarely saw a woman in power, other than backstabbing Roman noble bitches. If she had a nice figure, it may have been enough, combined with the power thing. Ever run into a woman who wasn't objectively attractive but had "something about her" that put a little fire in your loins?
quote:
Cassius Dio, who, writing in the 3rd century CE
That's like me saying Dolly Madison was super hot. How the f would I know?
quote:
Plutarch said that her charm rested in her irresistible presence, her persuasive character, and her stimulating discourse because she was highly educated and spoke many foreign languages.
At least a little closer in time, and probably more accurate based on the contemporaneous images and other contemporaneous descriptions. 2 guys obsessed with political power were likely to pop wood for a foreign queen, especially one from a dynasty started by Alexander the Great in a Kingdom as ancient and glorified as Egypt.
Posted on 10/14/20 at 7:28 pm to tigahbruh
I’m sure she was alright looking but yeah, the fact that she was queen of Egypt alone would’ve made her highly valued for any man looking for power.
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