re: Batman V Superman: Dawn of Justice Tomato watch 29%

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I guarantee you Snyder never gave a passing thought to that side character or how it affects the story. And that's why him and Goyer suck dick as story tellers.

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Yep. As I said, Snyder and Goyer don't understand the difference between story telling/character development and plot points. You know they just came up with a scene where Superman fricks up a truck, they move on, and never gave it another thought. They don't understand that one scene's tone should usually carry over into the next scene, or else it's just jarring and makes your audience confused as hell if they have any attention span.

Later in the movie, you have Superman killing Zod and half of Metropolis being destroyed. Less than 2 minutes later, Superman destroys a piece of military property and starts cracking jokes with them not being able to find him. Superman is simply an arrogant dick in this who can't see beyond his own needs.

Seriously who does he help? I guess nameless people on the rig and the random family of four that he's now all of the sudden interested in saving. Sure he saved the world, but it's a bit of a moot point when you're the reason they are there. Plus he likes Earth, so that's still a selfish motivation. Why would I want to be like this man aside from a mere power angle?

what? I'd seen it twice in theaters and enjoyed them during those viewings.

but it was moreso the rewatchability, but again, it could have been pure fatigue.

and yeah, ill buy the dvd to add to the sw collection.

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Breesus

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your post made me realize the reason i liked MoS is because I hate Superman. I kind of forgot how much I never cared for him growing up and why i always gravitated towards Batman. I like him having attitude and being more "down to earth" and reactionary. BUT you are 100% that is not who Superman is. That is a very different version and I understand the hate people have for MoS now.

I genuinely dont care for the "super" man persona. i always found it boring and lame and no one could really do great Superman stories because of it. Superman was always better as a side character due to that nature. so for me personally, im ok with Snyder's changes but i completely understand the hate now. i guess this would be like if he decided to make Batman lucky instead of smart in his planning.

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This made me chuckle...you're going the wrong way DC

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i have to see until after i see BvS, but this might prove that critics dont get it. Returns was one of the worst Superhero films I have watched. It's Green Lantern bad. how it got 76% shows their misguidance.


eta: or they had to do a "elseworlds" type story to make a great Superman story. like red son, or the nail, or kingdom come. Superman's personality just bogs down great writing.

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i have to see until after i see BvS, but this might prove that critics dont get it. Returns was one of the worst Superhero films I have watched. It's Green Lantern bad. how it got 76% shows their misguidance.

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Agreed. That movie was awful.

Kumar beat up Superman, nuff said.

That movie was horrible.

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I'm not defending the character. He's a poor miserable piece of shite. I'm saying superman should be above that.

And I don't have an irrational hatred of Snyder. I've never heard anyone say he was a great story teller. Most people know he's not.

I'm a writer, I love writing, and I've taken plenty of writing classes, I just pointed out one of his shortcomings as a writer and story teller. He doesn't ever give a shite about side characters or how his main characters affect the world outside of the actual screen time. It's what makes him a shitty story teller.

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As someone who has written scripts etc I agree.

The concepts related to writing a story well aren't really all that difficult. The difficult part is getting in the position to have creative control.

Zach Snyder accomplished the difficult task by some unexplainable miracle. He just ROYALLY SUCKS at the easy and basic stuff.

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Holy shite you have to dig really deep to defend that character. It's a fricking movie.

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Except it relates to things like sub-text, narrative and character, and it IS important to any kind of storytelling and how we consume it. Nothing is "just a movie," or "just a book," regardless of how surface or not something is, or how intentionally superficial it is created, these things still matter. They also point to quality and coherence, and how we evaluate it.

Agree

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guess this would be like if he decided to make Batman lucky instead of smart in his planning.

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No. It would he like if he made Batman a rich punk street thug who kills other street thugs with guns because he's bored and had an aversion to violence because his dad used to beat him. He isn't a smart detective, or a deeply conflicted badass, just a rich arse clown in a bat suit.

Snyder's Superman is a fundamentally different from what Superman actually is and represents.

I have no problem with Superman having a little edge to him. The new comics lately are pretty cool, but at his core he's a good guy. He would never crush some poor dude's life on a whim. And he'd never level a city and then laugh in the citizens faces.

Again, another opportunity missed by Snyder. Have the fight at the end, frick even have him kill Zod, but then he should've flown up and seen all the destruction and death in the city and been damn near in tears at the sight of it. He should've been down there as Superman helping people pick themselves up and helping rebuild. That would've given you badass fighting Superman, but them showed his growth of a character after his first big fight. It would've been a powerful scene to see Superman somberly picking up the pieces of a smashed Metropolis and being greeted both by thankful citizens and by angry ones.

Instead, at the end of the movie he's still an arrogant immature frick head.

And I love in the trailer that Bruce Wayne calls out the Daily Planet for writing bullshite puff pieces about Superman as if they are trying to gloss over how shitty he really is. Which is exactly what Snyder's version of Superman would do. Get a job at the local paper and selfishly skew the news to his own benefits.