re: Batman V Superman: Dawn of Justice Tomato watch 29%

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Only hardcore fanboys who loved Man of Steel and went to a damn IMAX screening of the trailer have seen it. I don't really care about their opinion since it sure as he'll isn't going to speak for the general audience.

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And when we see it tomorrow night and tell you that we liked it? Will you dismiss us as early viewers? The same with the people who see it Friday? Opening night fanboys?

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ONE. He can't tell a story. I care deeply about writing and stroytelling, and if you can't tell a story, I'm gonna hate your film. A lot of people will give you a pass if you have a visual aesthetic, which Snyder does, but movies are stories. And if you fail at telling a story, you've failed at a very basic level.

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Yup.

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TWO. He hates Superman. You cannot make a film if you have contempt for your hero and his ethos. I am driven insane by those who confusing cynicism and darkness for "adult". I'd argue that Superman's commitment to ideals and his unwavering goodness and selflessness ARE maturity. Children are all id, teenagers are narcissistic suckholes, and young adults aren't much better. It's really adults who are more likely to put others before themselves. That is a sign of maturity, and one that Snyder has openly mocked his entire career.

Clearly, I haven't seen the film, but these tendencies are all over his other films, so I'm willing to bet these are valid critiques of this movie as well. Snyder is the wrong guy to do Superman (though he could do Batman). The problem is not the DC properties, it's the hack they have entrusted with their cinematic vision.

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Exactly. This is my biggest beef with the intention to mimic Nolan, it doesn't work and Snyder doesn't understand why Nolan's films worked at all. And this...

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I am driven insane by those who confusing cynicism and darkness for "adult".

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Goes far beyond comic book movies. People will write this stuff off so quickly because something isn't "dark," and "morally amibiguous," etc. That it's the only way to build a story with depth, and that's so short-sighted.

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And when we see it tomorrow night and tell you that we liked it? Will you dismiss us as early viewers? The same with the people who see it Friday? Opening night fanboys?

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Me personally, I think "liking" it and thinking it's a well made film are two different things. Most of these critics will not like it because they don't think it's a well made film. Others may not like it because of the tone, etc. Most of the people I've seen reviewing it, even fans that had a blast and enjoyed the tone, have said it's not constructed well. And that's disheartening.

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Did you like Man of Steel?

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It had two major problems, but I saw it multiple times in the theater and I have it on BluRay. The destruction wasn't a problem for me, so I really don't care if BvS has buildings getting crushed.

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think that's where the disconnect is, fans are getting what they want.

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I don't think they're actually listening to the fans. Stupid fanboys are getting what they want, but the fanboys will accept almost anything from a franchise. That's why there are people still defending the Star Wars prequels.

Snyder is a highly reactive director. He listens for like 5 seconds, flips out without hearing the subtlties of our complaints, and then proceeds to do the exact opposite of what people were complaining about without understanding the reason behind it. He always throws the baby out with the bath water. And then when the fans get pissed all over again about throwing out the baby, he then runs another bath and proceeds to do it all over again.

The man does not understand the difference between story telling and plot points. All Snyder is interested in is visuals and plot points. He doesn't give a damn about the narrative or the characters. He just looks at those as minor inconveniences he needs to get to his balls to the wall visuals.

At least Michael Bay openly doesn't give a shite about the narrative or try to argue with the fans that he's doing something they asked for. Snyder doesn't listen to the fans about the subtlties on why his films often don't work. All Snyder is doing is looking at bullet points, does something irrational to address them, screams "Are you happy now", and then we all get pissed at him again when it's clear he didn't actually listen to us. If Snyder were in the corporate world, he would get fired quickly for doing this in any other environment.

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Fox Mulder

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Why don't you throw out those little buzz words "disaster porn" and mention that you like these movies in the same light that you like horror movies, you've only mentioned those things 27,000 times so far in this topic.

I'm kidding. But you are driving those two points home quite frequently.

why does TFA get a pass a great film?

Don't get me wrong, I enjoyed it but I'm not sure how its that much better than most comic movies.

Tomatoes has reached a critical consensus:

Critics Consensus: Batman v Superman: Dawn of Justice smothers a potentially powerful story -- and some of America's most iconic superheroes -- in a grim whirlwind of effects-driven action.

its 92% fresh and made a shite load of money. Criminally underrated?