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Posted on 8/14/14 at 9:47 am to The Seaward
quote:
Now if you consider longevity and the whole career, I imagine a case could be made for Nolan, but 1999-2000 Pedro was probably the greatest pitcher ever.
i'd take johan santana's post all star break 2004 over any pitcher ever.
Posted on 8/14/14 at 10:06 am to 632627
quote:
i'd take johan santana's post all star break 2004 over any pitcher ever.
Santana '04 -
2.61 ERA
182 ERA+
0.92 WHIP
10.5 K/9
265 K's
Pedro '00 -
1.74 ERA
291 ERA+
.73 WHIP
11.8 K/9
284 K's
Posted on 8/14/14 at 10:12 am to dnm3305
Santana's 2nd half was ridiculous.
104.1 IP
13-0 W/L
1.21 ERA
0.748 WHIP
129 K - 11.1 K/9
.443 OPS against
104.1 IP
13-0 W/L
1.21 ERA
0.748 WHIP
129 K - 11.1 K/9
.443 OPS against
Posted on 8/14/14 at 10:17 am to dnm3305
quote:
Santana '04 -
2.61 ERA
182 ERA+
0.92 WHIP
10.5 K/9
265 K's
Pedro '00 -
1.74 ERA
291 ERA+
.73 WHIP
11.8 K/9
284 K's
i said post all star break 04.....
13-0 record, 4 or less hits allowed in 10 straight games, 1.21 era
Posted on 8/14/14 at 10:20 am to 632627
quote:
i'd take johan santana's post all star break 2004 over any pitcher ever.
I'm biased obviously but Randy Johnson's short tenure with the Astros was the most dominant stretch I've ever seen.
quote:
Beginning with his August 2 start against Pittsburgh, Johnson went 10-1 with a 1.28 ERA with a 0.98 WHIP and a 12.4 K/9. The most astounding statistic of Johnson's dominance as an Astro, however, is his ERA+.
quote:
The most astounding statistic of Johnson's dominance as an Astro, however, is his ERA+. In Seattle, Johnson posted a 106, a respectable number. In his 11 starts in Houston? 322. That number undoubtedly wouldn't have held up over the course of a season's worth of starts, but it nonetheless shows just how dominant Johnson was in those eleven starts.
Posted on 8/14/14 at 10:23 am to Patton
quote:Given his stats were even more freakish than Barry Bonds, Mark McGwire, Sammy Sosa or Rafael Palmeiro, why shouldn't he be suspected of steroid abuse? Steroids will help you bulk up if you want to lift weights, but they also help you recover faster from prior workouts. There were many pitchers who took steroids, especially relievers, because they could throw hard more frequently. Why should Pedro, or any guy who excelled during that period, be above suspicion?
Pedro also pitched during the peak of steroid abuse. In the best division in baseball w/ a DH, and a hitter friendly home field.
Posted on 8/14/14 at 10:35 am to craigbiggio
quote:
I'm biased obviously but Randy Johnson's short tenure with the Astros was the most dominant stretch I've ever seen.
quote:
Beginning with his August 2 start against Pittsburgh, Johnson went 10-1 with a 1.28 ERA with a 0.98 WHIP and a 12.4 K/9. The most astounding statistic of Johnson's dominance as an Astro, however, is his ERA+.
splitting hairs, but id still give johan the nod due slightly better numbers and the fact that he wasn't 6'10 with a 100 mph fastball. I'm not taking anything away from randy johnson, but he had a huge advantage.
Posted on 8/14/14 at 10:37 am to LL012697
quote:
I'm genuinely interested in seeing that argument
quote:
Koufax's career peaked with a run of six outstanding seasons from 1961 to 1966, before arthritis in his left elbow ended his career prematurely at age 30. He was named the National League's Most Valuable Player in 1963. He also won the 1963, 1965, and 1966 Cy Young Awards by unanimous votes, making him the first 3-time Cy Young winner in baseball history and the only one to win 3 times when the award was for all of baseball, not just one league. In each of his Cy Young seasons, Koufax won the pitcher's triple crown by leading the NL in wins, strikeouts, and earned run average. Koufax's totals would also have led the American League in those seasons. Koufax was the first major leaguer to pitch four no-hitters (including the eighth perfect game in baseball history). Despite his comparatively short career, Koufax's 2,396 career strikeouts ranked 7th in history as of his retirement, trailing only Warren Spahn (2,583) among left-handers. Koufax and Nolan Ryan are the only two pitchers inducted into the Hall of Fame who had more strikeouts than innings pitched.
He also won 3 WS and was MVP in 2 of them.
This post was edited on 8/14/14 at 10:40 am
Posted on 8/14/14 at 10:41 am to offshoretrash
koufax is the barry sanders of baseball
Posted on 8/14/14 at 10:41 am to Poodlebrain
quote:
Given his stats were even more freakish than Barry Bonds, Mark McGwire, Sammy Sosa or Rafael Palmeiro, why shouldn't he be suspected of steroid abuse? Steroids will help you bulk up if you want to lift weights, but they also help you recover faster from prior workouts. There were many pitchers who took steroids, especially relievers, because they could throw hard more frequently. Why should Pedro, or any guy who excelled during that period, be above suspicion?
He shouldnt be above suspicion. It is more than likely than any elite player from that era, or any era, had an edge some type of way. It shouldnt matter. Baseball and there fans are fixated on PED's and are so ignorant to the fact that nearly every single player of that time was using PED's or of any era using some type of edge. It comes with sports and elite sports. Olympic sprinters all juice up. NFL players ALL juice up. Cyclist's all juice. Hockey. You name it. It is irrelevant.
Posted on 8/14/14 at 10:42 am to offshoretrash
Koufax was awesome in his time.
Posted on 8/14/14 at 10:43 am to offshoretrash
quote:
Koufax and Nolan Ryan are the only two pitchers inducted into the Hall of Fame who had more strikeouts than innings pitched.
why did you highlight this?
Posted on 8/14/14 at 10:45 am to offshoretrash
quote:
Koufax and Nolan Ryan are the only two pitchers inducted into the Hall of Fame who had more strikeouts than innings pitched.
Until Pedro is eligible.
Pedro-
3154 K
2827 IP
10.0 k/9
Ryan-
5714 K
5386 IP
9.5 k/9
So the one thing that Ryan was known for and excelled at, striking people out, Pedro was still better than he was at it.
This post was edited on 8/14/14 at 10:46 am
Posted on 8/14/14 at 10:46 am to FightinTigersDammit
quote:
Koufax and Nolan Ryan are the only two pitchers inducted into the Hall of Fame who had more strikeouts than innings pitched.
Once Pedro is eligible, he will be in that group as well.
Posted on 8/14/14 at 10:46 am to Poodlebrain
quote:
Given his stats were even more freakish than Barry Bonds, Mark McGwire, Sammy Sosa or Rafael Palmeiro, why shouldn't he be suspected of steroid abuse? Steroids will help you bulk up if you want to lift weights, but they also help you recover faster from prior workouts. There were many pitchers who took steroids, especially relievers, because they could throw hard more frequently. Why should Pedro, or any guy who excelled during that period, be above suspicion?
The dude was a beanpole. He got a little fat in his late career, but let's not act like he was even a big pitcher.
It's not like he was firing 97 MPH fastballs on the regular either.
This post was edited on 8/14/14 at 10:50 am
Posted on 8/14/14 at 10:46 am to dnm3305
yeah that's what im getting at. He tried to use that as a bullet point for koufax over martinez without realizing he was actually arguing against koufax.
Posted on 8/14/14 at 10:48 am to offshoretrash
You just showed that Koufax was a great pitcher, I never disagreed. I'm asking how he was better than Pedro Martinez, the data you posted did nothing to prove he was
Posted on 8/14/14 at 10:49 am to bbap
quote:
why did you highlight this?
IF Koufax had pitched another 7 or 8 years he would have had over 4000 strike outs. His last year of baseball he had 317.
Posted on 8/14/14 at 10:50 am to offshoretrash
quote:
IF Koufax had pitched another 7 or 8 years he would have had over 4000 strike outs. His last year of baseball he had 317.
I really dont care. Pedro averaged 10K/9. Koufax averaged 9.2.
You cannot make any strikeout argument for koufax over pedro no matter how many if games you play. you cant, and if you try you'll just be wrong.
This post was edited on 8/14/14 at 10:51 am
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