- My Forums
- Tiger Rant
- LSU Recruiting
- SEC Rant
- Saints Talk
- Pelicans Talk
- More Sports Board
- Fantasy Sports
- Golf Board
- Soccer Board
- O-T Lounge
- Tech Board
- Home/Garden Board
- Outdoor Board
- Health/Fitness Board
- Movie/TV Board
- Book Board
- Music Board
- Political Talk
- Money Talk
- Fark Board
- Gaming Board
- Travel Board
- Food/Drink Board
- Ticket Exchange
- TD Help Board
Customize My Forums- View All Forums
- Show Left Links
- Topic Sort Options
- Trending Topics
- Recent Topics
- Active Topics
Started By
Message
re: Who was the better pitcher: Nolan Ryan vs Pedro Martinez
Posted on 8/14/14 at 10:51 am to offshoretrash
Posted on 8/14/14 at 10:51 am to offshoretrash
quote:
IF Koufax had pitched another 7 or 8 years he would have had over 4000 strike outs. His last year of baseball he had 317.
...
If Teddy Williams hadn't gone to the war, he would have been the best baseball player of all time.
If my aunt had balls, she'd be my uncle.
1
Posted on 8/14/14 at 10:53 am to offshoretrash
Unfortunately, Koufax had to quit before he lost full use of his left arm.
Posted on 8/14/14 at 10:53 am to Jcorye1
quote:
If Teddy Williams hadn't gone to the war, he would have been the best baseball player of all time.
This is not in dispute.
Posted on 8/14/14 at 10:56 am to offshoretrash
quote:
offshoretrash
You have absolutely terrible analytical skills.
Posted on 8/14/14 at 11:08 am to bbap
quote:Not true. Koufax played in a time when there were 10 fewer major league teams. That means there were 80 guys on major league rosters facing Martinez who would have been in the minors when Koufax was playing. The seasons were the same number of games, so that means Koufax was facing the same batters more frequently than Martinez.
You cannot make any strikeout argument for koufax over pedro no matter how many if games you play. you cant, and if you try you'll just be wrong.
Given those factual differences, it is certainly reasonable to make arguments based on changing the circumstances each played under. Why would I be wrong to say, if played during the same period as Martinez he would have faced guys who would have been in the minors during the 60's and struck out batters with greater frequency? There is no proof one way or the other. But there is entertainment in having the argument.
Posted on 8/14/14 at 11:10 am to Poodlebrain
quote:
10 fewer major league teams. That means there were 80 guys
Closer to 150, but yes.
Posted on 8/14/14 at 11:10 am to offshoretrash
Ok, so I don't have the time to go too in depth for these right now, so I'll just throw out some useful info about their careers compared to Pedro's.
It'll go in this format since you can't really format well on this website:
Name/ERA-/FIP-/WHIP
Walter Johnson / 68 / 76 / 1.06
Cy Young / 74 / 80 / 1.13
Greg Maddux / 76 / 78 / 1.14
Randy Johnson / 75 / 73 / 1.17
Christy Mathewson / 74 / 76 / 1.06
Tom Seaver / 79 / 85 / 1.12
Warren Spahn / 84 / 94 / 1.19
Bob Gibson / 78 / 81 / 1.19
Roger Clemens / 70 / 70 / 1.17
Sandy Koufax / 75 / 75 / 1.11
Pedro martinez / 66 / 67 / 1.05
All taken from fangraphs.com
I'll link descriptions of ERA-, FIP-, and WHIP in a little bit.
ERA- (aERA): LINK
FIP: LINK
FIP- is calculated similarly to ERA- where the amount it is below 100 is how much better that pitcher was than league average.
WHIP: LINK
Whip is a bit less reliable when comparing pitchers, which is explained in the link, but I like it.
It'll go in this format since you can't really format well on this website:
Name/ERA-/FIP-/WHIP
Walter Johnson / 68 / 76 / 1.06
Cy Young / 74 / 80 / 1.13
Greg Maddux / 76 / 78 / 1.14
Randy Johnson / 75 / 73 / 1.17
Christy Mathewson / 74 / 76 / 1.06
Tom Seaver / 79 / 85 / 1.12
Warren Spahn / 84 / 94 / 1.19
Bob Gibson / 78 / 81 / 1.19
Roger Clemens / 70 / 70 / 1.17
Sandy Koufax / 75 / 75 / 1.11
Pedro martinez / 66 / 67 / 1.05
All taken from fangraphs.com
I'll link descriptions of ERA-, FIP-, and WHIP in a little bit.
ERA- (aERA): LINK
quote:
One of the most basic properties of aERA is that the lower it is, the better. The convention with adjusted statistics dating back to Palmer has been to make higher better, but I don't see why that needs to be the case. Lower is better for ERA and many other pitching statistics in their unadjusted form, and even the most casual of fans understands this.
An aERA of .75 means that the pitcher allowed runs at 75% of the league average, or that he allowed 25% less runs per inning than the league average. Unlike similar statements made with ERA+, these kinds of statements are mathematically accurate.
FIP: LINK
FIP- is calculated similarly to ERA- where the amount it is below 100 is how much better that pitcher was than league average.
WHIP: LINK
Whip is a bit less reliable when comparing pitchers, which is explained in the link, but I like it.
This post was edited on 8/14/14 at 11:21 am
Posted on 8/14/14 at 11:12 am to Patton
Pedro also had Little Pedro, that alone makes him better.
Posted on 8/14/14 at 11:13 am to LasVegasTiger
But the Yankees were his Daddy.
Posted on 8/14/14 at 11:13 am to Poodlebrain
quote:
Not true. Koufax played in a time when there were 10 fewer major league teams. That means there were 80 guys on major league rosters facing Martinez who would have been in the minors when Koufax was playing. The seasons were the same number of games, so that means Koufax was facing the same batters more frequently than Martinez. Given those factual differences, it is certainly reasonable to make arguments based on changing the circumstances each played under. Why would I be wrong to say, if played during the same period as Martinez he would have faced guys who would have been in the minors during the 60's and struck out batters with greater frequency? There is no proof one way or the other. But there is entertainment in having the argument.
With all that being said, the players of that era were not even close to as talented as the players of today, so even though Pedro was pitching against a more diluted sample size (your argument), can we surely say that the dilute sample size is still more talented than Koufax's sample size?
Posted on 8/14/14 at 11:15 am to FightinTigersDammit
quote:
But the Yankees were his Daddy.
Hahah, forgot about that. I will say Pedro was damn entertaining.
Posted on 8/14/14 at 11:16 am to LL012697
quote:
I'm asking how he was better than Pedro Martinez, the data you posted did nothing to prove he was
3 CY, 1 MVP, 3 WS rings, 2 WS MVP, 4 No Hitters, and 1 perfect game, is not enough?
I'm not gonna post their numbers to compare go look them up. SK had a 5 year run that was very similar to Pedros but he won more games, had a lower ERA, more strike outs, more innings pitched, more shut outs, and should have won a 4th CY in a row.
The guy was a winner! Who knows how his career would have turned out if he had played 17 or 20 yrs.
As I said before I am not trying to take anything from Pedro. He is a HOF'er and top 20 all time pitcher. He had one helluva run and pitched one of the best years ever in the modern era.
Posted on 8/14/14 at 11:17 am to dnm3305
quote:
players of that era were not even close to as talented as the players of today
Really?
Posted on 8/14/14 at 11:18 am to LasVegasTiger
I imagine Koufax got to face the opposing pitcher a lot more often than Pedro as well. Which certainly would enhance his K%.
Posted on 8/14/14 at 11:20 am to bbap
quote:
You cannot make any strikeout argument for koufax over pedro no matter how many if games you play.
I wasn't I was just pointing out that he would have been in the top 4 all time for strike outs.
Posted on 8/14/14 at 11:21 am to offshoretrash
how is this 11 pages?
Posted on 8/14/14 at 11:23 am to Lester Earl
quote:
how is this 11 pages?
Because 10 just wasn't enough! :rimshot:
Posted on 8/14/14 at 11:24 am to Lester Earl
quote:
Lester Earl
Just a civil baseball discussion. That is a rarity on here.
Posted on 8/14/14 at 11:25 am to Lester Earl
Old people.
Posted on 8/14/14 at 11:26 am to offshoretrash
quote:
3 CY, 1 MVP, 3 WS rings, 2 WS MVP, 4 No Hitters, and 1 perfect game, is not enough?
Jesus, are you retarded?
Page 11 of 14
Popular
Back to top
Follow TigerDroppings for LSU Football News