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Message
Objective proof Michigan should have had the last play
Posted on 9/8/26 at 3:46 am
Posted on 9/8/26 at 3:46 am
It has been bothering me since I hand-timed the play yesterday and could not get it to be 9 seconds. I assumed someone on the internet would count the frames but since I haven't seen anyone do it, I am off this week and couldn't sleep I decided to do it.
I think this is objective proof and it could only be accurate because after the play before the first Hail Mary the ref told the time keeper to set the game clock to 9 seconds. I assume this is 9 full seconds because nothing else makes sense. I was looking for a way to take all the clocks out of the equation, set feelings aside and look for the objective answer. If you disagree with my methodology, please let me know.
The idea is to get a frame count from the video to establish the exact length of the play. If it is 9 seconds or more then Michigan should not have gotten another play, if it is less than 9 seconds then Michigan should have gotten the play.
I specifically chose the video from the NBC Sports official YouTube account to reduce the chance of video errors or tampering. If anyone wants to replicate my findings I can talk you through it.
First, I uploaded the video and moved to the first frame the center moves the ball (the start of the "clock"); that is frame 28, seen in the editor as "current frame":
I moved forward in the video until the ball was clearly in the defender's hands. I used the frame where his arms are closed around the ball just to be conservative. This is frame 281:
You subtract 28 from 281 and the length of the play is 253 frames. The video is 30 frames per second so divide 253 by 30 and you get 8.433 seconds. The play took less than the 9 seconds that should have been on the clock, per the referee. Since the clock should not have moved from 9 seconds to zero during the play there should have been time on the clock; in this case, any time on the clock is enough.
This approach takes out all the clocks, so it doesn't matter what any of them say. Michigan should have gotten the last play, no screw job as much as it pains me to say it. Facts beat feelings.
If anyone is curious, the NBC broadcast clock hits 0:00 at frame 271.
ETA the clock moves from 9 seconds to 8 seconds at frame 41, which is 13 frames after the ball moves or only .433 second. Either the timer started the clock nearly 6 tenths early or the game clock never accurately was set to 9 seconds as it chould have been.
I think this is objective proof and it could only be accurate because after the play before the first Hail Mary the ref told the time keeper to set the game clock to 9 seconds. I assume this is 9 full seconds because nothing else makes sense. I was looking for a way to take all the clocks out of the equation, set feelings aside and look for the objective answer. If you disagree with my methodology, please let me know.
The idea is to get a frame count from the video to establish the exact length of the play. If it is 9 seconds or more then Michigan should not have gotten another play, if it is less than 9 seconds then Michigan should have gotten the play.
I specifically chose the video from the NBC Sports official YouTube account to reduce the chance of video errors or tampering. If anyone wants to replicate my findings I can talk you through it.
First, I uploaded the video and moved to the first frame the center moves the ball (the start of the "clock"); that is frame 28, seen in the editor as "current frame":
I moved forward in the video until the ball was clearly in the defender's hands. I used the frame where his arms are closed around the ball just to be conservative. This is frame 281:
You subtract 28 from 281 and the length of the play is 253 frames. The video is 30 frames per second so divide 253 by 30 and you get 8.433 seconds. The play took less than the 9 seconds that should have been on the clock, per the referee. Since the clock should not have moved from 9 seconds to zero during the play there should have been time on the clock; in this case, any time on the clock is enough.
This approach takes out all the clocks, so it doesn't matter what any of them say. Michigan should have gotten the last play, no screw job as much as it pains me to say it. Facts beat feelings.
If anyone is curious, the NBC broadcast clock hits 0:00 at frame 271.
ETA the clock moves from 9 seconds to 8 seconds at frame 41, which is 13 frames after the ball moves or only .433 second. Either the timer started the clock nearly 6 tenths early or the game clock never accurately was set to 9 seconds as it chould have been.
This post was edited on 9/8/26 at 4:03 am
16
Posted on 9/8/26 at 3:57 am to Obtuse1
Do you think Western Michigan would have gotten another play if it was them trying to score?
Posted on 9/8/26 at 4:13 am to Underwood
quote:
Do you think Western Michigan would have gotten another play if it was them trying to score?
100% irrelevant. You are asking me to provide an answer based on feelings when the whole point of this endeavor was to remove my feelings and just find and consider the objective facts. I would have made the argument that Michigan should not have gotten the play if the play had taken 9 seconds or longer and viewed it through the same objective lens if it had been WMU.
Sometimes you have nothing but feelings/subjective opinions to go on. I just tried to find a way to get rid of the subjective and accept and answer I didn't want to accept.
Posted on 9/8/26 at 4:48 am to Obtuse1
The clock was at 0.0. Game is over
Posted on 9/8/26 at 5:00 am to Obtuse1
quote:
I was looking for a way to take all the clocks out of the equation
And this is where your argument falls apart.
Sure...mathematically, your argument is sound but that isn't what's being argued. Time is kept on the field by the clock on the scoreboard. That scoreboard is how the network and radio broadcasts can tell how much time is left in the game. Unless it freezes for whatever reason, it's also how the referees determine how much time is left in the game.
Ten million people were watching that game and therefore watching that clock while everything was happening. Rather than using the clock in the stadium, the Big Ten used a clock that only a handful of people had access to. In the NFL, if there are discrepancies like that, they are taught to use the clock in the stadium due to the controversies that will ensue if they do otherwise.
What the replay officials failed to identify in their review was the discrepancy between the clock in their office and the one in the stadium.
Posted on 9/8/26 at 5:05 am to Obtuse1
Their right tackle was holding on the play. Game was over.
Posted on 9/8/26 at 5:28 am to RollTide1987
quote:
Ten million people were watching that game and therefore watching that clock while everything was happening. Rather than using the clock in the stadium, the Big Ten used a clock that only a handful of people had access to.
Big 10 always likes to play like they’re above the cheating lol.
Posted on 9/8/26 at 5:45 am to RollTide1987
quote:
And this is where your argument falls apart.
You are misconstruing my argument.
I am talking about right and wrong, which is irrelevant to mistakes or errors made.
We know there should have been 9 seconds on the clock.
We know the play took less than 9 seconds.
We know the clock moved from 9 to 8 seconds just .433 seconds after the center moved the ball.
This means 1 of three things happened:
The clock malfunctioned and ran fast between 9 and 8 seconds
The timekeeper started the clock over .5 seconds early
The clock was never properly set to 9 seconds
I will put a question to you using the clock we saw as the official clock. Given the same scenario (clock to be reset at 9 seconds before the second Hail Mary attempt) if that clock moved from 9 seconds to zero in 3 seconds, would you still make the "its official" argument, or would you recognize there was an error somewhere? Time is objective and the magnitude of the error doesn't matter. In this case the errror was less than .6 seconds, but it is no different than if it was 6 seconds regarding being right or wrong.
Time in this situation is reviewable. Whether for the right reasons or the wrong reason, the refs got the call correct. Michigan should have had the last play because the play did not take 9 seconds or more.
Posted on 9/8/26 at 6:29 am to Obtuse1
What defines the end of the play when the clock should stop? Can the ref and the timekeeper see the same thing at the same moment from differing angles? Is there at least half a second given for human judgement of when a ball is caught or wont be?
This post was edited on 9/8/26 at 6:31 am
Posted on 9/8/26 at 6:42 am to Obtuse1
quote:
after the play before the first Hail Mary the ref told the time keeper to set the game clock to 9 seconds.
For the sake of argument, I’m going to assume the game clock is the clock in the stadium, the clock everyone can see, the same clock used in the broadcast. He is not referring to the super secret game clock used to put I second on the clock.. and funny enough, that clock shows triple zeros.
Posted on 9/8/26 at 7:00 am to Blizzard of Chizz
The "It's all real to me" video comes to mind with this thread.
Posted on 9/8/26 at 7:16 am to RollTide1987
2 different clocks means 2 different time keepers.
Posted on 9/8/26 at 7:23 am to Obtuse1
Great work. Thanks for taking the time to put this together. I found it convincing.
Like most everyone else, though, my problem is the existence of a special secret clock. How can the public ever know that a game is being officiated correctly?
Like most everyone else, though, my problem is the existence of a special secret clock. How can the public ever know that a game is being officiated correctly?
Posted on 9/8/26 at 7:29 am to Obtuse1
I don’t know what’s more pathetic, that Michigan and the Big Ten had to cheat to beat a MAC school, or that they tried to gaslight everyone into believing they didn’t just watch them do it. 
Posted on 9/8/26 at 7:39 am to Obtuse1
Football is not timed in fractions
Gtfo
The clock on spent 2 seconds on the last WM field goal
WM was screwed and the the losers in Michigan stormed the field how pathetic.
Okie is going to slide in dry
Gtfo
The clock on spent 2 seconds on the last WM field goal
WM was screwed and the the losers in Michigan stormed the field how pathetic.
Okie is going to slide in dry
Posted on 9/8/26 at 8:23 am to Obtuse1
You may be right according to the frame count. Still, it’s hard to reconcile this with the actual clock we were watching. Since time immemorial, that exact play would end the game with 0:00. Never does another full second get put back on the clock bc frame rate tells us 0.2 seconds remained.
Posted on 9/8/26 at 8:23 am to WhiteMandingo
quote:
Football is not timed in fractions
This. Some of yall don’t know how clocks work. If you set a timer to 9 seconds, it’ll immediately jump to 8.99 when you hit start, when shows up as 8 seconds on the clock. the only reason that doesn’t happen here is the delay from the clock operator starting the clock once the ball is snapped….a few tenths of a second delay.
Posted on 9/8/26 at 8:45 am to GoldenSombrero
quote:
This. Some of yall don’t know how clocks work. If you set a timer to 9 seconds, it’ll immediately jump to 8.99 when you hit start, when shows up as 8 seconds on the clock. the only reason that doesn’t happen here is the delay from the clock operator starting the clock once the ball is snapped….a few tenths of a second delay.
That's what I am wondering; when it hits 0:00, does that mean 0.99 or absolute zero? I would think the former, since when the clock starts at 15:00, it immediately moves to 14:59. I was strongly considering going to this game, but the Detroit Jazz Festival was too good.
Posted on 9/8/26 at 8:54 am to Obtuse1
quote:
Do you think Western Michigan would have gotten another play if it was them trying to score?
quote:
100% irrelevant.
No,it is completely relevant. While your efforts to justifiy this are noble you merely extrapolated one component. This wasn't a courtroom or emergency room. The Big 10 is a big business and a loss to WMU would hurt the brand. This is linke "hanging chad" stuff from the 2000 Presidential election. No way on Earth Western Michigan would have gotten a second chance had they been down 12-7.
Posted on 9/8/26 at 9:27 am to I-59 Tiger
More (though good intentioned) gaslighting. The clock on the field is the official clock unless announced otherwise. No such announcement was made. The clock that everyone can see is there for coachs and officials to use to perform duties and judgements. To render it meaningless in the most crucial point of the game is inexcusable.
This post was edited on 9/8/26 at 9:32 am
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