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Started By
Message
re: NFL QB play has regressed a lot
Posted on 9/9/24 at 11:09 am to yaboidarrell
Posted on 9/9/24 at 11:09 am to yaboidarrell
Every body bitched about how it’s to much of an offensive league for the past 10 years. This is nature healing itself.
0
Posted on 9/9/24 at 11:13 am to sms151t
Well in his first 4 years, he has 60 TDs and 34 interceptions, which doesn’t really stick out.
It could be related to 2023…but that is a very small sample size of 5 games. 2 TDs and 6 picks, so it could be for the few games he played last year. It’s clearly not for anything more long term than that.
It could be related to 2023…but that is a very small sample size of 5 games. 2 TDs and 6 picks, so it could be for the few games he played last year. It’s clearly not for anything more long term than that.
Posted on 9/9/24 at 11:16 am to sms151t
quote:
They are being forced to play earlier not learning to be a professional.
Tom Brady had pointed out that the Falcons are trying the old school approach with Penix and everyone is laughing at them.
Posted on 9/9/24 at 2:57 pm to poncho villa
There are a limited number of those big guys that are super fast.Coaches and their teams have been drafting college defenders with speed instead of size for a decade. Today's LB's are the size of safeties from 2000. With cover skills being more important than ever, a lot of safeties are converted corners. Defenses are finally catching up with the spread offenses. Maybe RB's will come back to prominence.
Posted on 9/9/24 at 3:03 pm to yaboidarrell
Have you watched CFB QBs and their offenses the last 10 years? Pickings are as slim as the playbooks. They NFL is stuck taking from a bad assembly line.
It appears the NFL's only answer is to repeatedly restrict the defense in the name of safety.
It appears the NFL's only answer is to repeatedly restrict the defense in the name of safety.
Posted on 9/9/24 at 3:24 pm to K9
quote:
Vic Fangio type defense has stopped a lot of the offenses I think. Thought I saw a article about it a year or two ago
Two-high look forcing a lot of short underneath passes existed long before Vic Fangio.
Posted on 9/9/24 at 3:43 pm to H-Town Tiger
quote:The first 3 weeks of the regular season are essentially the preseason. People should be careful creating big "takeaways" from these early games.
Limiting practices and no one playing in the preseason
Posted on 9/9/24 at 4:45 pm to H-Town Tiger
quote:
Limiting practices and no one playing in the preseason
Pretty much this. The Lions run a precise offense, I'm not surprised one bit they didn't look great offensively.
Posted on 9/9/24 at 5:19 pm to yaboidarrell
I guess the Brady, Manning, Brees era spoiled me, because I now I look at the stat lines and QBs are struggling to go over 100 yards by halftime. Hitting 150 yards passing by games end is weak af.
Levis & Caleb Williams combined for 220 yards passing yesterday. Brissett in NE had 121 yards lol
Levis & Caleb Williams combined for 220 yards passing yesterday. Brissett in NE had 121 yards lol
Posted on 9/9/24 at 5:46 pm to poncho villa
quote:
probably has more to do with the DLine guys are literal freak of natures
That’s not something new
The QB play is just not as good as it was a few years ago when we had Brady, Brees etc
This post was edited on 9/9/24 at 5:48 pm
Posted on 9/9/24 at 5:49 pm to yaboidarrell
Posted on 9/9/24 at 6:18 pm to yaboidarrell
Top draft picks have to play right away with modern contracts.
Many guys got to sit a year or two and spot start back in the day.
It is what it is.
Also need 32 starters each week.
Used to only need 26 in the 1970s.
Many guys got to sit a year or two and spot start back in the day.
It is what it is.
Also need 32 starters each week.
Used to only need 26 in the 1970s.
Posted on 9/9/24 at 8:07 pm to yaboidarrell
I feel like defenses have caught up since the rule changes and the NFLs shift more towards college style offenses.
Pash rushers and linebackers are faster than ever and built to stop the pass heavy offenses we see now.
Feels like we're at a point where a team could zig when everyone is zagging and build an old school run it down your throat type offense and could probably be successful. There's just not enough good QBs out there to run todays offenses.
Pash rushers and linebackers are faster than ever and built to stop the pass heavy offenses we see now.
Feels like we're at a point where a team could zig when everyone is zagging and build an old school run it down your throat type offense and could probably be successful. There's just not enough good QBs out there to run todays offenses.
Posted on 9/9/24 at 11:18 pm to yaboidarrell
I remember in the mid 2010s the uproar over the 5k passing yards. “Stafford and every qb in a pass first offense will average 5k”. Things change fast.
Posted on 9/10/24 at 10:49 am to yaboidarrell
I'd love to see the mean/median age and experience of starters over time, but my guess is it's significantly lower right now than at any point in recent history.
I just looked and week 1 this year had 8 starters in their age 30 season or older. Rodgers (41), Stafford (36), Cousins (36), Geno Smith (34), Carr (33), Brissett (32), Prescott (31) and Goff (30). Only 3 QBs starting this week have won a Super Bowl (Rodgers, Stafford and Mahomes).
I went back and spot checked 10 seasons ago in 2015 and the number of quarterbacks starting week 1 in their age 30 season or older was 16. Peyton Manning (39), Brady (38), Palmer (36), Brees (36), Josh McCown (36), Romo (35), Eli Manning (34), Rivers (34), Roethlisberger (33), Fitzpatrick (33), Rodgers (32), Cutler (32), Alex Smith (31), Brian Hoyer (30), Ryan (30) and Flacco (30). In 2015 there were 8 active starters who had won Super Bowls (Manning, Brady, Brees, Manning, Roethlisberger, Rodgers, Flacco and Wilson).
It seems counterintuitive at first glance that a position where experience is so paramount has gotten so much younger, but when you really think about it it makes sense. Teams seem to finally be starting to wise up and realize that it's counterproductive to pay some of these mediocre quarterbacks these huge contracts and that there's much more value in paying a young guy on a rookie deal. Why should the Giants have given someone like Daniel Jones 40 million per year? It looked stupid at the time and has only looked worse since. They weren't winning games with Jones when they were paying him peanuts, why did they think it would get better once he was taking up a huge chunk of their cap space?
With the rookie salary scale (which was sorely needed) being what it is it just makes more sense for teams to shoot their shot on a QB in the draft and hope for the best. It used to be if you spent a high 1st round draft pick on a QB you were financially tethering yourself to him for at least 3 years. When the Falcons drafted Matt Ryan in 2008 they made him the 4th highest paid quarterback in the league before he ever even took a snap. It worked out well for the Falcons (no, they never won a Super Bowl with Ryan, but he was very good for them for a long time), but compare that to the Raiders when they drafted Jamarcus Russell in '06, a pick so disastrous it set their franchise back years.
But nowadays missing on a quarterback in the draft leaves you no worse off than missing on any other position. Sure, it sucks to miss out on a pick, but if you take a guy and it works then you're set for another decade and if it doesn't work out then you can simply move on and try again.
Unfortunately though for the fans it's left the state of QB play at an all time low. It used to be that having a solid if unremarkable veteran QB was considered a plus. If you were one of the 25 best quarterbacks in the league then you could be reasonably certain of getting a starting job somewhere.
Nowadays no one wants the 25th best quarterback because odds are you aren't going to win anything with the 25th best quarterback. Unless you're a young guy with a real chance to get better most teams aren't going to bother. When Andy Dalton started for the Saints two years ago he had a top 20 season based on the stats, but at no point did the Saints consider bringing him back and no team considered him as a starter the next season because it's obvious that Dalton isn't going to win you a Super Bowl. So we end up with a league that's increasingly skewed towards young guys with promise, but many of whom simply aren't very good.
I just looked and week 1 this year had 8 starters in their age 30 season or older. Rodgers (41), Stafford (36), Cousins (36), Geno Smith (34), Carr (33), Brissett (32), Prescott (31) and Goff (30). Only 3 QBs starting this week have won a Super Bowl (Rodgers, Stafford and Mahomes).
I went back and spot checked 10 seasons ago in 2015 and the number of quarterbacks starting week 1 in their age 30 season or older was 16. Peyton Manning (39), Brady (38), Palmer (36), Brees (36), Josh McCown (36), Romo (35), Eli Manning (34), Rivers (34), Roethlisberger (33), Fitzpatrick (33), Rodgers (32), Cutler (32), Alex Smith (31), Brian Hoyer (30), Ryan (30) and Flacco (30). In 2015 there were 8 active starters who had won Super Bowls (Manning, Brady, Brees, Manning, Roethlisberger, Rodgers, Flacco and Wilson).
It seems counterintuitive at first glance that a position where experience is so paramount has gotten so much younger, but when you really think about it it makes sense. Teams seem to finally be starting to wise up and realize that it's counterproductive to pay some of these mediocre quarterbacks these huge contracts and that there's much more value in paying a young guy on a rookie deal. Why should the Giants have given someone like Daniel Jones 40 million per year? It looked stupid at the time and has only looked worse since. They weren't winning games with Jones when they were paying him peanuts, why did they think it would get better once he was taking up a huge chunk of their cap space?
With the rookie salary scale (which was sorely needed) being what it is it just makes more sense for teams to shoot their shot on a QB in the draft and hope for the best. It used to be if you spent a high 1st round draft pick on a QB you were financially tethering yourself to him for at least 3 years. When the Falcons drafted Matt Ryan in 2008 they made him the 4th highest paid quarterback in the league before he ever even took a snap. It worked out well for the Falcons (no, they never won a Super Bowl with Ryan, but he was very good for them for a long time), but compare that to the Raiders when they drafted Jamarcus Russell in '06, a pick so disastrous it set their franchise back years.
But nowadays missing on a quarterback in the draft leaves you no worse off than missing on any other position. Sure, it sucks to miss out on a pick, but if you take a guy and it works then you're set for another decade and if it doesn't work out then you can simply move on and try again.
Unfortunately though for the fans it's left the state of QB play at an all time low. It used to be that having a solid if unremarkable veteran QB was considered a plus. If you were one of the 25 best quarterbacks in the league then you could be reasonably certain of getting a starting job somewhere.
Nowadays no one wants the 25th best quarterback because odds are you aren't going to win anything with the 25th best quarterback. Unless you're a young guy with a real chance to get better most teams aren't going to bother. When Andy Dalton started for the Saints two years ago he had a top 20 season based on the stats, but at no point did the Saints consider bringing him back and no team considered him as a starter the next season because it's obvious that Dalton isn't going to win you a Super Bowl. So we end up with a league that's increasingly skewed towards young guys with promise, but many of whom simply aren't very good.
Posted on 9/10/24 at 11:00 am to olemc999
quote:
Tom Brady had pointed out that the Falcons are trying the old school approach with Penix and everyone is laughing at them.
They signed Cousins to a 4/$180M $100M guaranteed then took a 24 yo 6 year college player to “sit” everyone should laugh at them.
Chad Pennington was drafted in the 1st round the same year as Brady. He hardly played his first 2 years. He was still wasn’t any good. This idea that QBs need to sit and learn is laughable stupid. There is no magic formula for success QBs that start right away succeed and some that sit don’t.
This post was edited on 9/10/24 at 11:28 am
Posted on 9/10/24 at 11:11 am to H-Town Tiger
College football moved away from pro style offenses where QBs had to read a defense.
Posted on 9/10/24 at 11:22 am to IggyReilly
quote:
I went back and spot checked 10 seasons ago in 2015 and the number of quarterbacks starting week 1 in their age 30 season or older was 16. Peyton Manning (39), Brady (38), Palmer (36), Brees (36), Josh McCown (36), Romo (35), Eli Manning (34), Rivers (34), Roethlisberger (33), Fitzpatrick (33), Rodgers (32), Cutler (32), Alex Smith (31), Brian Hoyer (30), Ryan (30) and Flacco (30). In 2015 there were 8 active starters who had won Super Bowls
This is pure cherry picking. First off Wilson was supposed to start this week but was a late injury scratch and Flacco started a playoff game last year. Maybe 2015 is an outlier. How many season ever had 8 SB winning QBs starting? or maybe things fluctuate. Brady was the youngest QB to win a SB in 2001. The 10 SB before that the winning QBs were Dilfer, Warner Elway Farve Young Aikman Rypien. Dilfer was replaced the year after he “won” Aikman Elway Young and Rypien had retired so Brady, Warner and Farve were probably the only SB winners to start the 2002 opener.
This post was edited on 9/10/24 at 11:24 am
Posted on 9/10/24 at 11:28 am to yaboidarrell
It was week 1 and most of them didn’t play in the preseason
Those numbers will go up no doubt
Those numbers will go up no doubt
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