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re: Is ND really any more overrated than LSU?
Posted on 8/18/26 at 10:20 am to hsgeoboy
Posted on 8/18/26 at 10:20 am to hsgeoboy
quote:
lol the link he was using in his argument only covers through 2020. It’s actually using years almost exclusively BEFORE 2019
And LSU had plenty of overrated years during that span but was the argument that LSU hasn't been overrated or that Notre Dame has? LSU had plenty of overrated stretches, for example, the 2nd half of Les' tenure.
Posted on 8/18/26 at 10:21 am to GentleJackJones
I actually think I agree with this criticism most. Like someone previously mentioned their weak schedule are often due to the ACC being crap and scheduling teams that end up not being as good years out (ie Wisconsin). But they have never really had the kind of dominant teams that other top dogs have had. It’s usually disciplined but unexciting offense with stout defense that gets them wins. They’ve had solid corners (which I consider skill players) but on offense I can only really think of Jeremiyah Love and maybe Kyren Williams. The rest just kind of exist and do their jobs to a decent enough capacity to win. I think this absolutely can affect the perception that they’re overrated, since they don’t have those big name players in recent history.
Posted on 8/18/26 at 10:22 am to JiminyCricket
I think my argument is Notre Dame is not any more overrated than lots of major programs, and definitely not more overrated than LSU recently. So who are we to freak out that they’re ranked highly?
Posted on 8/18/26 at 10:22 am to hsgeoboy
quote:
Bro according to your very own link, Notre Dame is only ranked 1 below LSU
It's not my data, don't blame me. That site uses a cumulative type of thing, like you could be dead on the money with your pre/post ranking for 5 years in a row, but one year go from #1 to unranked and now you have a score of -27 because of it. I don't think that's necessary the BEST way maybe to determine things, but it's at least presenting black and white facts.
Where ND is in relation to LSU is irrelevant.
quote:
By this argument, LSU is also one of the consistently most overrated teams…
well, judging by the numbers from 1989 - 2020 that wouldn't seem to be far off.
Posted on 8/18/26 at 10:31 am to hsgeoboy
quote:
I think my argument is Notre Dame is not any more overrated than lots of major programs,
That's pretty vague though. What do you mean by lots? What do you mean by major? You're not really wrong but the metric isn't clear either.
quote:
and definitely not more overrated than LSU recently
I didn't make the argument that LSU hasn't been overrated. I think the argument most people have against ND is that their schedule doesn't provide the opportunity to get exposed like say an LSU schedule does.
For example, LSU goes 7-5 last year in the regular season with losses @ Vandy, @ Bama, @ OU, @ Ole Miss and A&M.
What if instead of playing Pavia on the road, Chambliss on the road, Alabama on the road, LSU instead played Purdue, Boston College and Syracuse? Does LSU win all 3 of those and get to 10 wins? I think they do.
What if the LSU schedule looks like.....
@Clemson
La Tech
Florida
Southeastern
@Purdue
South Carolina
@Boston College
Texas A&M
@Syracuse
Arkansas
Western Kentucky
@OU
Does LSU sneak into the playoff as a 10-2 team and proceed to get their absolute doors blown off? Absolutely.
This post was edited on 8/18/26 at 10:38 am
Posted on 8/18/26 at 10:33 am to JiminyCricket
quote:
Notre Dame plays a weaker schedule than many other premier programs, it's just reality.
I agree with this in principle, but it's not for them trying to dodge teams. I value the ability to play teams from all conferences, but there are benefits to joining the Big10 or SEC. Full membership in the ACC or the Big12 would hurt the schedule more than it helps.
Posted on 8/18/26 at 10:36 am to lionward2014
quote:
I agree with this in principle, but it's not for them trying to dodge teams. I value the ability to play teams from all conferences, but there are benefits to joining the Big10 or SEC. Full membership in the ACC or the Big12 would hurt the schedule more than it helps.
Fair enough. I think, like I said in the earlier post, what bothers me is how ND can play a softer scehdule than a team like an LSU and still reap the benefit of the name on the jersey when it comes to selection. The committee has shown that it's better to play soft competition and win than play a tough schedule and take a few black eyes.
The watered down version of the LSU schedule I just posted would actually be quite similar to the ND actual schedule from last year.
LSU:---------------------------------------------------ND:
@Clemson - -------------------------------------- @ Miami
La Tech------------------------------------------------A&M
Florida ------------------------------------------------Purdue
Southeastern ---------------------------------------@ Arkansas
@Purdue---------------------------------------------Boise State
South Carolina -------------------------------------NC State
@Boston College----------------------------------USC
Texas A&M-------------------------------------------@ Boston College
@Syracuse-------------------------------------------Navy
Arkansas---------------------------------------------@ Pitt
Western Kentucky---------------------------------Syracuse
@OU ------------------------------------------------ @ Stanford
LSU probably wins as many or within one game of what ND won with that schedule and LSU was not a good football team last year.
This post was edited on 8/18/26 at 10:52 am
Posted on 8/18/26 at 10:40 am to lionward2014
quote:
This is a tougher schedule than any non SEC or Big 10 teams, and it's arguably tougher than some of the Big 10 teams that are ranked. No FCS games and 2 G5, one of which is Navy who is a 100 year rival that has 21 wins the last two seasons. . Don't give me that shite about playing in a conference championship game. 2017 Bama and 2024 OSU didn't play in their conference championship game and went on to win the natty, and 2017 was still a 4 team playoff. 41% of P4 teams in the 12 team playoffs did not play in their conference championship game.
Found the dumbass ND fan!
quote:
Don't give me that shite about playing in a conference championship game.
The point is ND has a cake schedule and avoids yet another tough game by not playing in a conference. Join a conference.
On top of the above posters destroying your argument, here’s some more data.
Big 10 ranked teams SOS:
Ohio State - 8
Oregon - 26
Indiana - 33
USC - 19
Michigan - 16
Washington - 25
Penn State - 62
Iowa - 38
quote:
and it's arguably tougher than some of the Big 10 teams that are ranked.
I just proved it wasn’t.
ND’s SOS IS 56TH
This post was edited on 8/18/26 at 10:59 am
Posted on 8/18/26 at 11:04 am to hsgeoboy
LSU play SEC, Notre Dame play Boston College
Posted on 8/18/26 at 11:06 am to GentleJackJones
quote:
Their schedules in the upcoming years, if they stay in tact, are pretty damn brutal.
That said, one thing I think hurts Notre Dame, as silly as it sounds, is that prior to Jeremiah Love, Notre Dame really never had any dudes at the skill positions. They never really trot out Justin Jefferson, Jamar Chase, Todd Gurley, Julio Jones, DeVonta Smith, Percy Harvin, Nick Chubb etc type players. They don’t dominate the eye test
I think your second paragraph is important, and I agree with it.
We have had a few real freaks, but they have either tended to be offensive linemen (Quenton Nelson, Joe Alt, Ronnie Stanley) or on defense (Jaylon Smith before the injury, Kyle Hamilton, Leonard Moore now). That certainly affects the perception of a program's top end ceiling.
Posted on 8/18/26 at 11:15 am to AbuTheMonkey
quote:
We have had a few real freaks, but they have either tended to be offensive linemen (Quenton Nelson, Joe Alt, Ronnie Stanley) or on defense (Jaylon Smith before the injury, Kyle Hamilton, Leonard Moore now). That certainly affects the perception of a program's top end ceiling.
Which is a direct result of BK's inability to recruit a national championship level. If I remember the stat right, Freeman has more 5 stars on this year's roster than BK recruited his last like 5 seasons, or something similar without looking it up.
Just on offense CJ Carr is the Heisman favorite, the RB room is deep with guys who can be top end RB's, the WR has a lot of young, unproven talent that has potential to be special, and Ian Premer may be the next Brock Bowers.
It's what infuriates me about the LSU guys hating on ND's roster after seeing how shite BK was at recruiting first hand. ND of the last 5 years is a different animal than the BK era.
Posted on 8/18/26 at 11:25 am to Gings5
quote:
The point is ND has a cake schedule and avoids yet another tough game by not playing in a conference. Join a conference.
See my post about how the only conferences that help their schedule would be the Big10 or SEC. Taking on 3 more ACC games at best keeps it equal, but more than likely makes it worse because you don't get the BYU, USC, or multiple SEC teams on it going forward.
quote:
it's arguably tougher
Do you know what the words "arguably" and "some" means?
Iowa's schedule is propped up by playing OSU, their next hardest game is @Michigan who may be bad and @Washington who will be average.
Washington ends with Indiana and @Oregon, but other than that they have Iowa and Penn St who will both be mid at best. They have to play @USC so maybe you can give them a slight edge.
Indiana plays @OSU and USC, other than that they are playing against an overrated Michigan and a meh Washington. Their schedule is dog shite outside of that.
The Big10 preseason SOS is propped up by overhyped teams. Check in at the midway point and I promise those 3 SOS's won't be as good.
Posted on 8/18/26 at 11:29 am to lionward2014
There are only 11 P4 teams with a weaker SOS than ND. Give it up
Posted on 8/18/26 at 11:32 am to lionward2014
quote:
ND of the last 5 years is a different animal than the BK era.
Are they?
Under Brian Kelly
2018: 12-1 (CFP Loss)
2019: 11-2 (Missed 4 team playoff)
2020: 10-2 (CFP Loss)
2021: 11-2 (Missed 4 team playoff)
Under Marcus Freeman
2022: 9-4 (Missed 4 team playoff)
2023: 10-3 (Missed 4 team playoff)
2024: 14-2 (Lost CFPCG)
2025: 10-2 (Missed 12 team CFP)
In that stretch of time, Brian Kelly has more wins and playoff appearances than Marcus Freeman when the playoff was harder to make.
quote:
Just on offense CJ Carr is the Heisman favorite, the RB room is deep with guys who can be top end RB's, the WR has a lot of young, unproven talent that has potential to be special, and Ian Premer may be the next Brock Bowers.
We'll see. It's been since Mariota in 2014 that the preseason Heisman favorite actually won the thing and the rest of that sounds like a lot of "we think these guys will be good but we'll have to see.
This post was edited on 8/18/26 at 11:40 am
Posted on 8/18/26 at 12:04 pm to JiminyCricket
quote:
Brian Kelly has more wins and playoff appearances than Marcus Freeman when the playoff was harder to make.
Freeman is 4-1 against the SEC and BK was 3-4 in his entire tenure at ND. BK had 0 playoff wins, Freeman has 3.
Record against Top 25: Freeman 16-6 and BK 23-25
So yes, Freeman has easily transcended in his tenure what Kelly did.
quote:
We'll see. It's been since Mariota in 2014 that the preseason Heisman favorite actually won the thing and the rest of that sounds like a lot of "we think these guys will be good but we'll have to see.
Obviously we all saw how the Heisman race shaped out even last season, but it's evidence that ND has recruited at a higher level recently than in BK's tenure to even have a QB in this discussion in preseason. It's been a long time since Brady Quinn was playing QB.
Posted on 8/18/26 at 12:06 pm to Gings5
quote:
There are only 11 P4 teams with a weaker SOS than ND. Give it up
Who gives a shite that Northwestern ahs the #17 SOS if they are going to go 3-9? That's a retarded take.
Posted on 8/18/26 at 12:33 pm to lionward2014
quote:
Freeman is 4-1 against the SEC and BK was 3-4 in his entire tenure at ND. BK had 0 playoff wins, Freeman has 3.
We really going to pretend that Marcus Freeman beating a couple of 8-5 SCAR and A&M teams is the same thing as the Alabama squads that Kelly faced just because they're all SEC? The UGA win sure, that one is legit, but let's not pretend that those were the same quality wins and let's certainly not pretend that any of Freeman's teams stay anywhere within 2 touchdowns of either 2020 or 2012 Alabama.
Also, most of Kelly's ND tenure had a playoff that was either two or four. Freeman has had a 12 team playoff for 2 of his 4 years and he hasn't won the one that matters anyway.
I get it, you're a ND fan and wanna see things as a positive for them but Freeman hasn't accomplished anything that Kelly didn't. At some point, you have to win the big one and with a bigger field and more opportunity to do so, Freeman hasn't delivered yet.
quote:
but it's evidence that ND has recruited at a higher level recently than in BK's tenure
Cj Carr was the number 11 QB and number 88 overall player.
Gunner Kiel was the #1 QB and #24 Overall
Tyler Bucnher was the #10 QB and #90 Overall
Phil Jurkovec was the #4 DT QB and #110 Overall
Brandon Wimbush was the #3 DT QB and #43 Overall
It's not like a player of Carr's rating was unheard of in South Bend.
This post was edited on 8/18/26 at 12:46 pm
Posted on 8/18/26 at 12:47 pm to lionward2014
quote:
Who gives a shite that Northwestern ahs the #17 SOS if they are going to go 3-9? That's a retarded take.
Well they may not go 3-9 if they played Notre Dame's schedule is the point lol
Northwestern is over/under at 5.5 this year and is projected by many to only be favored in 3 or so games. Their SOS is #6 according to ESPN.
I asked chat if they played ND's schedule, how many games would they be favored. That number jumps to 8.
ND's 5 toughest games; #7 Miami, #14 BYU, #19 SMU, North Carolina, Wisconsin.
NW's 5 toughest games: #1 Ohio State, #2 Oregon, #6 Indiana, #16 Penn State, Iowa
This post was edited on 8/18/26 at 12:56 pm
Posted on 8/18/26 at 12:58 pm to JiminyCricket
its not as strong as its been in the past
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