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SlowFlowPro
Stanford Fan
Simple Solutions to Complex Probs
Member since Jan 2004
373625 posts

re: Better Athlete, Lebron James or Cam Newton
quote:

I always thought Iverson would have had a shot as a C

100%

Long arms, too.

Go look at his football highlights.


VerlanderBEAST
Michigan Fan
Member since Dec 2011
17673 posts

re: Better Athlete, Lebron James or Cam Newton
Both are overrated the best athletes are the ones in individual sports
This post was edited on 6/30 at 6:12 am


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STEVED00
North Carolina St. Fan
Metairie, LA
Member since May 2007
16667 posts

re: Better Athlete, Lebron James or Cam Newton
quote:


100%

Long arms, too.

Go look at his football highlights.




On the basketball court AI was the quickest/fastest guy in the NBA during his prime. On a football field, he would have been just one of the guys. If anything what would have helped in football would’ve been his size length. I would think his speed probably would’ve been average.

Like I said earlier, I watched K. Faulk on the basketball court at the rec with actual LSU basketball players and his speed and quickness was just on another level. I would say Faulk’s athleticism was on par with AI. The biggest difference being that AI’s extremely high skill level (hand eye, basketball instincts) allowed him to play at a high speed but still maintain control of the ball and maintain proper spacing whereas a guy like Faulk would probably have issues maintaining ball control in traffic as well as continually having spacing issues bc he was going too fast.
This post was edited on 6/30 at 6:49 am


SlowFlowPro
Stanford Fan
Simple Solutions to Complex Probs
Member since Jan 2004
373625 posts

re: Better Athlete, Lebron James or Cam Newton
quote:

On a football field, he would have been just one of the guys.




go look at his FB highlights. his mixtape was the proto-Reggie Bush/Noel Devine tape

quote:

Like I said earlier, I watched K. Faulk on the basketball court at the rec with actual LSU basketball players and his speed and quickness was just on another level.

i don't think you realize how silly this is


c on z
New York Yankees Fan
It’s time
Member since Mar 2009
114653 posts

re: Better Athlete, Lebron James or Cam Newton
quote:

I watched K. Faulk on the basketball court at the rec with actual LSU basketball players and his speed and quickness was just on another level.

The basketball players probably weren’t elite at that time, so that’s not really a good litmus test for your argument.


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Crowknowsbest
Georgia Fan
Member since May 2012
23320 posts

re: Better Athlete, Lebron James or Cam Newton
quote:

On the basketball court AI was the quickest/fastest guy in the NBA during his prime. On a football field, he would have been just one of the guys.

one of the best 4-5 HS football players ever from the state of Virginia. In the mix with Lawrence Taylor, Mike Vick, Ronald Curry, etc. Some would say he was the best.

YouTube

Outside of the deep south, the best athletes tend to gravitate toward basketball vs. football.


STEVED00
North Carolina St. Fan
Metairie, LA
Member since May 2007
16667 posts

re: Better Athlete, Lebron James or Cam Newton
quote:


go look at his FB highlights. his mixtape was the proto-Reggie Bush/Noel Devine tape


His HS mixtape against HS players. Come on brah. You are implying AI would’ve been Marcus Lattimore level based on him being an elite HS prospect. Faulk was an elite HS prospect. AI has hand eye skills that’s sets him apart as well.

If they can make it in basketball then obviously they should given the earning potential and lack of wear/tear. AI had the ball skills to go along with the other measurables.
This post was edited on 6/30 at 9:49 am


STEVED00
North Carolina St. Fan
Metairie, LA
Member since May 2007
16667 posts

re: Better Athlete, Lebron James or Cam Newton
quote:


Outside of the deep south, the best athletes tend to gravitate toward basketball vs. football.


Again. Define athlete. AI had the ball skills to go along with the speed/quickness. AI would not be in the same elite class of guys like Tyreke Hill in NFL

I mean you compare AI to Reggie. Reggie was a good NFL player but no where in the conversation as elite or even HOF worthy.

You compared Westbrook to “Thicker” Moss whereas the better comparison is Westbrook is probably a slower Moss given they are approximately the same weight/height. Moss was a sub 4.4 guy. Do we have proof Westbrook is any where near that fast?
This post was edited on 6/30 at 9:59 am


Crowknowsbest
Georgia Fan
Member since May 2012
23320 posts

re: Better Athlete, Lebron James or Cam Newton
quote:

Do we have proof Westbrook is any where near that fast?

I didn't make that comparison, but basketball players are obviously never timed in the 40. They also never train for it. That's simply a data point comparison that is impossible to make with any degree of certainty, but I think it's fair to assume that elite NBA players are very, very fast.

ETA: We can compare things like vertical leap to proxy for explosiveness, and people that are as explosive vertically as James, Westbrook, etc. are going to be able to seriously run unless there's something physically strange about them.
quote:

Define athlete.

Some combination of size, speed, strength, explosiveness, coordination, etc. You could even include some degree of spacial awareness and athletic instincts. It's hard to define by a set criteria.
This post was edited on 6/30 at 10:07 am


STEVED00
North Carolina St. Fan
Metairie, LA
Member since May 2007
16667 posts

re: Better Athlete, Lebron James or Cam Newton
quote:



I didn't make that comparison, but basketball players are obviously never timed in the 40. They also never train for it. That's simply a data point comparison that is impossible to make with any degree of certainty, but I think it's fair to assume that elite NBA players are very, very fast.


NBA combine does a 75ft sprint that is timed. It is shorter but still comparable. NBA combine is slightly different (shorter dash and lighter bench weight) but comparable. Assuming those guys did the NBA combine then surely we could at least extrapolate the results.

quote:

but I think it's fair to assume that elite NBA players are very, very fast.


Not arguing that they are very very fast. What I am arguing is that NFL RBs, CBs, and WRs are very very very fast.

If we line up the 10 fastest NFL guys with the 10 fastest NBA guys then I would be willing to bet the top 5 would be all NFL guys and probably 8 or 9 of the top 10 would be NFL guys.
This post was edited on 6/30 at 10:12 am


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Crowknowsbest
Georgia Fan
Member since May 2012
23320 posts

re: Better Athlete, Lebron James or Cam Newton
quote:

Assuming those guys did the NBA combine then surely we could at least extrapolate the results.

Sure, but I'm not sure how many of the top prospects actually participate. Also, are they wearing basketball shoes when they do it?

I don't know the answer to either question. Never watched footage of the NBA combine.


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Crowknowsbest
Georgia Fan
Member since May 2012
23320 posts

re: Better Athlete, Lebron James or Cam Newton
quote:

What I am arguing is that NFL RBs, CBs, and WRs are very very very fast.

Sure, but I don't think it's fair to assume that there aren't NBA guards that are just as fast, especially if they dedicated their physical training to that objective.

Iverson was on a different athletic level than a lot of his peer HS football players that eventually made the NFL when he was an 18 year old. He went a different direction, but that wasn't because of some physical limitation in football.


Crowknowsbest
Georgia Fan
Member since May 2012
23320 posts

re: Better Athlete, Lebron James or Cam Newton
quote:

If we line up the 10 fastest NFL guys with the 10 fastest NBA guys then I would be willing to bet the top 5 would be all NFL guys and probably 8 or 9 of the top 10 would be NFL guys.

Probably. NBA guys are way taller. It's hard to be a true burner at 6'5"+, but I would say a guy who runs a 4.7 at 6'8" is a more rare athlete than a 6' dude who runs a 4.4.


Rep520
Arizona Fan
Member since Mar 2018
10324 posts

re: Better Athlete, Lebron James or Cam Newton
quote:

His HS mixtape against HS players. Come on brah. You are implying AI would’ve been Marcus Lattimore level based on him being an elite HS prospect.


He stopped playing after HS, so it's all we have to go on, but he was pretty dominant. In the VA area, a lot of people saw him as comparable to Vick, which is high praise as an athlete.

I ran across Tyreek Hill playing pickup ball on YouTube. It struck me as relevant here, because I think some people are overrating football players a bit. Hill is another level of speed in football, but he doesn't stand out nearly as much in a pickup game with random guys.

Tyreek Hill

Football athleticism and basketball athleticism are two different things. Charlie Ward is another example of how football players don't dominate. He was a good running QB at FSU, so not lacking in athleticism, but not viewed as a particularly good athlete in the NBA.


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STEVED00
North Carolina St. Fan
Metairie, LA
Member since May 2007
16667 posts

re: Better Athlete, Lebron James or Cam Newton
quote:


Iverson was on a different athletic level than a lot of his peer HS football players that eventually made the NFL when he was an 18 year old. He went a different direction, but that wasn't because of some physical limitation in football.


Never said he couldn’t compete physically with them. I’m just saying he would not be the fastest in the NFL like he was in the NBA.


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tress4pres
Ohio State Fan
Columbus, OH
Member since Dec 2007
3369 posts

re: Better Athlete, Lebron James or Cam Newton
I can’t believe this is even a debate. Lebron is an absolute freak and was a phenomenal HS football player. Newton is just a freak show.


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Rep520
Arizona Fan
Member since Mar 2018
10324 posts

re: Better Athlete, Lebron James or Cam Newton
quote:

NBA guys are way taller. It's hard to be a true burner at 6'5"+, but I would say a guy who runs a 4.7 at 6'8" is a more rare athlete than a 6' dude who runs a 4.4.


I think you see this in the NFL. A 6'4 guy who can run under 4.5 is regarded as unique, like DK Metcalf.

The league average is about 6'7 in the NBA. You look at the smaller guys who are regarded as great athletes like Westbrook and Nate Robinson and you can see they have NFL type athleticism if they worked on it. Robinson was a CB and return man as a true freshman at UW.

If you're 5'11-6'0 with speed, football is easier to make it in. In the NBA, you're small and need a lot of skill to compensate. In the NFL, you can play anywhere in skill positions or the secondary at that height.


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VADawg
Georgia Fan
Jacksonville
Member since Nov 2011
21402 posts

re: Better Athlete, Lebron James or Cam Newton
quote:

On the basketball court AI was the quickest/fastest guy in the NBA during his prime. On a football field, he would have been just one of the guys


Iverson was one of the best quarterbacks in Virginia when he was in high school. He was just unfortunate that he went to Bethel at a time when Hampton had arguably the best HS football program in the country and was destroying everyone.


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TeddyPadillac
New Orleans Pelicans Fan
Member since Dec 2010
15893 posts

re: Better Athlete, Lebron James or Cam Newton
quote:


On the basketball court AI was the quickest/fastest guy in the NBA during his prime. On a football field, he would have been just one of the guys


no. no. no.
When your quickness and athleticism stands out on an NBA court like Iverson's does, you aren't just one of the guys.
You want to say that about someone like maybe Steve Francis, then ok. Francis was super athletic, but his speed and quickness was not on Iverson's level.

We know Randy Moss was fast, but there have been faster WR's than him and none of them compare to him. He was special. There's more to being a great football player than being athletic. No one would call Jerry Rice one of the most gifted athletically in the NFL, but he's still the best WR ever. I'd love to see Westbrook run a 40. If you think he isn't fast, i don't know what you are watching.
Not sure how accurate it is, but i saw where Westbrook has been tracked at 21.6mph as his top speed. Fastest last year in the NFL was Matt Breida at 22.3mph. Difference is Westbrook was dribbling a basketball when they tracked him, and he didn't have 50+ yards to run like most of the NFL players that are tracked at with their top speed, he probably did it in under 20 yards considering an nba court is only 30 yards end to end. which just further proves how explosive he is.

Sit courtside or near it for an NBA game and you'll realize real quick the kind of athletes that are playing. Someone that has always stood out to me was Tony Parker after seeing him in person. Looks small on tv on the court, but he's bigger than most NFL receivers. Thing that stood out to me is that he didn't even look like he was trying most of the time, but he was always the quickest guy on the court.


STEVED00
North Carolina St. Fan
Metairie, LA
Member since May 2007
16667 posts

re: Better Athlete, Lebron James or Cam Newton
quote:


Sit courtside or near it for an NBA game and you'll realize real quick the kind of athletes that are playing. Someone that has always stood out to me was Tony Parker after seeing him in person. Looks small on tv on the court, but he's bigger than most NFL receivers. Thing that stood out to me is that he didn't even look like he was trying most of the time, but he was always the quickest guy on the court.


I have seen both on court/ field level. They are all freaky athletes. I’m just saying basketball players are freaks bc of size and athleticism. Football players are freaks bc size and athleticism too but for many positions in football abnormal height is not a prerequisite to play the position.


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