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re: Anthony Edwards: Outside of Jordan, nobody in the NBA had any skills until Kobe came along
Posted on 8/21/24 at 1:58 pm to Bench McElroy
Posted on 8/21/24 at 1:58 pm to Bench McElroy
Edwards just became Slo's favorite player
0
Posted on 8/21/24 at 2:01 pm to Bench McElroy
I would bet the 80's and 90's have the most top 75 guys of any era. They certainly had the greatest teams.
They shoot more 3's today big fricking whoop not sure how that equates to more skill.
They shoot more 3's today big fricking whoop not sure how that equates to more skill.
Posted on 8/21/24 at 2:06 pm to Peter167
quote:
They shoot more 3's today big fricking whoop not sure how that equates to more skill.
Sports evolve. People find better ways to practice, train, and prepare. Watch a random NBA game from the 80s or 90s and compare it with any NBA game this upcoming season. It's night and day.
For example, look at this clip. This was an unexplainable move in 1988
This post was edited on 8/21/24 at 2:13 pm
Posted on 8/21/24 at 2:08 pm to therick711
quote:
I think the 96 Olympic team comfortably handles the 2024 version.
I disagree. The ‘96 team is nearly 30 years older than the 2024 team.
Posted on 8/21/24 at 2:11 pm to GoldenGuy
Those guys can still go!
Posted on 8/21/24 at 2:46 pm to Bench McElroy
quote:
Anthony Edwards: Outside of Jordan, nobody in the NBA had any skills until Kobe came along
Didn't they nearly lose to a team/country that doesn't have an indoor gym?
Posted on 8/21/24 at 3:04 pm to NOSTRODAMUS
quote:
bullshite. Lakers-Celtics finals in the 80s were 10x better and more exciting than anything going on the last 25 years.
I too disagree with WestCoast’s take
But you’re also wrong. There has been a ton of phenomenal finals since then, including the the same teams you mentioned in the early 2000s.
but anyone who can’t admit that the 2016 Cavs Warriors finals wasn’t right up there with all the other great finals, is probably just a lebron hater. And I’m not a bron fan boy.
But that is the most entertaining finals I’ve ever witnessed.
I also assume since you said the last 25 years that you’re comfortable with no including the 90s Bulls in this take.
This post was edited on 8/21/24 at 3:06 pm
Posted on 8/21/24 at 3:20 pm to lsupride87
you think Jokic's style is new? In your world does Bill Walton and Arvydas Sabonis not exist?
in 1996 the Olympic Centers were 24y/o Shaq, 33y/o Hakeem, 30y/o David Robinson
you keep talking about Jokic like he is some insurmountable force yet you dont seem to understand the sheer destruction Jokic would face dealing with those three guys relentlessly coming at him in waves on both ends of the floor for 40 minutes
who in today's NBA comes close to 24 year old Shaq? or even 30 year old David Robinson?
a big reason teams struggle with Jokic now is very few teams use high post centers (the classic "pivot man" style) any more. Plus Jokic is an all time great at that style of basketball. 25 to 30 years ago there were several teams that used that style (with lesser skilled players than Jokic). Centers out high today are often screeners and shooters and not passers.
the exception is Sabonis in SAC - he is an Assist machine
Houston - older Hakeem (236 assists in 96-97)
Charlotte - Divac (301 assists in 96-97)
were the best at it in 96-97 without three points being such a big focus
how do you think Wilt lead the league in Assists from the Center position in 67-68 ?
Wilt in 67-68 had 702 assists without the 3pt line and passing to a ton of cutters
Jokic in 23-24 had 708 assists with a 3pt line providing much easier assist opportunities
everything old becomes new again, you are right that the modern versions are almost always an improvement
quote:
Jokic is the best basketball player in the world. A team from the 90s would be absolutely lost on what to do with him. Modern teams struggle enough
in 1996 the Olympic Centers were 24y/o Shaq, 33y/o Hakeem, 30y/o David Robinson
you keep talking about Jokic like he is some insurmountable force yet you dont seem to understand the sheer destruction Jokic would face dealing with those three guys relentlessly coming at him in waves on both ends of the floor for 40 minutes
who in today's NBA comes close to 24 year old Shaq? or even 30 year old David Robinson?
a big reason teams struggle with Jokic now is very few teams use high post centers (the classic "pivot man" style) any more. Plus Jokic is an all time great at that style of basketball. 25 to 30 years ago there were several teams that used that style (with lesser skilled players than Jokic). Centers out high today are often screeners and shooters and not passers.
the exception is Sabonis in SAC - he is an Assist machine
Houston - older Hakeem (236 assists in 96-97)
Charlotte - Divac (301 assists in 96-97)
were the best at it in 96-97 without three points being such a big focus
how do you think Wilt lead the league in Assists from the Center position in 67-68 ?
Wilt in 67-68 had 702 assists without the 3pt line and passing to a ton of cutters
Jokic in 23-24 had 708 assists with a 3pt line providing much easier assist opportunities
everything old becomes new again, you are right that the modern versions are almost always an improvement
Posted on 8/21/24 at 3:23 pm to PP7 for heisman
quote:
For example, look at this clip. This was an unexplainable move in 1988
it wasnt a wrap around dribble that was unique, it was weird doing it from the right hand all the way around and back to his right hand
jordan probably did it instinctively in the moment and didnt even realize he did it
Posted on 8/21/24 at 3:25 pm to supatigah
You think that guy has ever watched a game from back then? You’re talking about reality he’s talking about an idea he formed in his mind based on the most limited information.
This post was edited on 8/21/24 at 3:26 pm
Posted on 8/21/24 at 3:29 pm to lsupride87
quote:
Serbia would beat the 96 team in a one game scenario if you dropped both teams into a game
Everyone on 2024 serbia knows what 96 was like. The 96 team would be lost with what Jokic is doing
1996 Shaq laughs at all of this
1996 Shaq would break it off on chubby Olympics Jokic
you are fixated on Jokic on offense but that dude would get absolutely destroyed on defense by Shaq, The Admiral and The Dream
can Jokic score enough to counter act three of the greatest centers of all time coming at him for 40 minutes? think about it
Posted on 8/21/24 at 3:30 pm to supatigah
The goal is to win but fans like that don’t believe this. They think the goal is stats. So you’re operating in the sport with the rules that shape the game and you’re looking for your best advantage. Within this context certain players emerge that give you these advantages to win and the teams built around these players or to stop them take shape accordingly. When the rules and structure change different types of players emerge and the cycle repeats itself. That is the nature of sports, not the relativism of stats.
Posted on 8/21/24 at 3:35 pm to Madking
quote:
You think that guy has ever watched a game from back then? You’re talking about reality he’s talking about an idea he formed in his mind based on the most limited information.
2024 Olympic team didnt have a real center at all. Embiid is a shell of his former self reduced to fade aways. Bam is a Power Forward, AD is a Power Forward
So Jokic wasnt even challenged on defense by his opponents. That gave him a lot of energy to lend to a heavy work load in the Serbian offense. Plus Jokic looked like he drank a keg of beer a day the moment he got back home after the playoffs ended.
That simply does not correlate to Jokic guarding prime Shaq, prime Admiral and savvy veteran Hakeem for 40 minutes and trying to lead Serbia's offense as well
Posted on 8/21/24 at 3:43 pm to supatigah
Joker is a well rounded player, he’s essentially the peak form of a Sabonis, Divac or Smits so I think he’d be a tough matchup for anybody but he’s not going to dominate these guys who were much better athletes and also very skilled. Ewing consistently hit 17 foot fade aways, so did Hakeem, even Shaq hit shorter ones pretty often on top of their post games which were much better than what we see now and they’re ability to hit contested shots isn’t even comparable. David Robinson was good on the low block but where his real advantage was is at the elbow, facing up and blowing by guys. And BTW all these guys were elite defenders and rim protectors. Again this take comes from a misunderstanding of past eras. What todays explosive guards are comparatively to past guards those Centers are comparatively to todays Centers and really any era.
This post was edited on 8/21/24 at 3:47 pm
Posted on 8/21/24 at 3:44 pm to supatigah
I don’t think teams shifted away from running true 5s just because. Humans haven’t gotten smaller or less athletic. There is a calculated reason why they evolved away from that. To me it’s counter intuitive to think teams went away from the traditional 5 in order to make themselves worse
Posted on 8/21/24 at 3:48 pm to lsupride87
Well front line players have definitely gotten smaller than past eras.
Posted on 8/21/24 at 3:55 pm to Madking
quote:
The goal is to win but fans like that don’t believe this. They think the goal is stats. So you’re operating in the sport with the rules that shape the game and you’re looking for your best advantage. Within this context certain players emerge that give you these advantages to win and the teams built around these players or to stop them take shape accordingly. When the rules and structure change different types of players emerge and the cycle repeats itself. That is the nature of sports, not the relativism of stats.
In 1990 the Nuggets shot 1059 threes
In 2000 the Kings shot 1656 threes
The NBA introduced the 8 second rule in the 2001-2002 season
In 2001-2002 the Celtics shot 1946 threes
In 2010 the Magic shot 2103 threes
In 2020 the Jazz shot 3098 threes
In 2024 the Celtics shot 3482 threes
its not just the favorable math, better defensive matchups and the skill improvements that contribute to the expansion of three point shooting in today's NBA.
It is also the pace that promotes long distance shooting
Posted on 8/21/24 at 3:57 pm to lsupride87
It's supply and demand as it always is. There simply aren't enough players with that size and athleticism to build a system around. When Shaq was in his prime, no one had an answer on defense or an equivalent on offense. Pace and space is the answer to the higher availability of athletic wings. The problem in the historical context is 1996 had three dominant centers AND pace and space wings. Very few teams, even internationally, can lay claim to that kind of construction.
This post was edited on 8/21/24 at 4:01 pm
Posted on 8/21/24 at 4:00 pm to supatigah
It also helps that there’s no hand checking so players can just step into 3s almost anytime they want to. Again the amount of uncontested shots now a days dwarfs any previous era because the league has mandated artificial space which changes everything in a way the casual fan doesn’t realize.
This post was edited on 8/21/24 at 4:07 pm
Posted on 8/21/24 at 4:03 pm to Bench McElroy
Not his best moment.
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