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re: Anthony Edwards: Outside of Jordan, nobody in the NBA had any skills until Kobe came along
Posted on 8/21/24 at 4:13 pm to Madking
Posted on 8/21/24 at 4:13 pm to Madking
quote:You think because humans are smaller and they don’t have an option or because it is a better winning formula?
Well front line players have definitely gotten smaller than past eras.
0
Posted on 8/21/24 at 4:14 pm to Madking
quote:I mean I just can’t vehemently disagree more
It also helps that there’s no hand checking so players can just step into 3s almost anytime they want to. Again the amount of uncontested shots now a days dwarfs any previous era because the league has mandated artificial space which changes everything in a way the casual fan doesn’t realize.
There would be FAR MORE shooting space on the perimeter with 90s rules on defense
Posted on 8/21/24 at 4:15 pm to Bench McElroy
quote:It’s painfully dumb to think no players outside of Jordan had skills until Kobe.
Outside of Jordan, nobody in the NBA had any skills until Kobe came along
Posted on 8/21/24 at 4:16 pm to ReauxlTide222
You ever see Ant? I wouldn’t call being well versed in life a strong suit of his
Posted on 8/21/24 at 4:17 pm to lsupride87
quote:
I don’t think teams shifted away from running true 5s just because. Humans haven’t gotten smaller or less athletic. There is a calculated reason why they evolved away from that. To me it’s counter intuitive to think teams went away from the traditional 5 in order to make themselves worse
who said anything about getting worse? a 7'0 guy getting a clean look at a corner three is a desired outcome in today's NBA
a 7'0 guy away from the basket in the 1980s was forbidden. Ralph Sampson could shoot very well and at 7'4 he would be a matchup nightmare in any era if he was allowed to play like Victor W
what a lot of teams figured out is what made the Bulls great was not the Triangle Offense, it was Jordan's ability to make a good shot out of a bad offensive set. Everyone else that ran the Triangle failed because it is deliberate and slow and when it breaks down it really breaks down. Jordan and to a lesser degree Pippen could bail them out by creating offense. The only other Triangle Offense team that found success was the Lakers with Shaq and kobe. Go figure.
running through actions, screens and re-screens etc all takes time. If that set doesn't work then you are at the end of the shot clock with little prospects at a good shot. Running 4 or 5 out, moving guys around, moving the ball around creates more options than walking it up, popping the center up high, he catches and turns etc or even worse he goes to the post and everyone clears out like the Knicks Patrick Ewing.
A big in the corner or on the wing that can shoot threes is a favorable replacement for Jordan or LBJ with the ball and a fading shot clock having to make chicken salad out of chicken shite. Most teams dont have Jordan or LBJ to bail them out of a bad offensive set.
Notice when Denver fell apart this season it was because their early action stuff didnt click and they went deeper into the shot clock. When Murray was playing out of his arse making everything they rolled but when he cooled off they struggled more than usual when they were deep in the shot clock
in 2001-2002 the NBA shaved 2 seconds off of each backcourt possession which forced teams to get into their offensive actions quicker and less deliberately. When team embrace long shooting, the players are better at long shooting and the ball is in the frontcourt faster you will get more long shooting. The analytics era just caused it to explode
Even in today's pass happy NFL there is always an effective team that runs the ball, doesnt turn it over, plays good defense and shortens up the game. Everything old becomes new again
Posted on 8/21/24 at 4:20 pm to lsupride87
How so?
Posted on 8/21/24 at 4:23 pm to supatigah
quote:Um, the people saying the 90s teams would dominate today
who said anything about getting worse?
Posted on 8/21/24 at 4:25 pm to lsupride87
quote:
There would be FAR MORE shooting space on the perimeter with 90s rules on defense
They think hand checking is this all powerful force, and somehow more powerful than cutting the time to cross halfcourt by 20% and allowing partial zones.
I really hope they bring it back soon so people who harp on it realize how little it would affect things today.
Posted on 8/21/24 at 4:26 pm to lsupride87
No they’re saying the 96 Olympic team would beat the 2024 team. Nobody is saying every 90s team beats every modern team, don’t do that.
Posted on 8/21/24 at 4:27 pm to SlowFlowPro
If you knew anything about basketball you’d understand but you don’t.
Posted on 8/21/24 at 4:29 pm to supatigah
quote:
Even in today's pass happy NFL there is always an effective team that runs the ball, doesnt turn it over, plays good defense and shortens up the game. Everything old becomes new again
The difference is there is nothing as exploitative as the 3 point shot in the NFL, so this back and forth will (not can) occur.
In the NBA, the exploit is there.
This post was edited on 8/21/24 at 4:30 pm
Posted on 8/21/24 at 4:29 pm to Madking
quote:
If you knew anything about basketball you’d understand but you don’t.
Says the guy who has to lie about zone defense and illegal defense to make his point
Posted on 8/21/24 at 4:30 pm to Madking
It is kind of interesting. If hand checks don't matter, why did the NBA crack down on them to improve offensive outcomes. Your options are the NBA was wrong assuming it made a difference, or the NBA was correct that it had to crack down on hand checks to improve offensive outcomes.
Posted on 8/21/24 at 4:33 pm to lsupride87
quote:
Um, the people saying the 90s teams would dominate today
i dont think it is better now or worse then it is just different
comparing eras is a huge waste of time, we get to a new era after adapting to new ideas, rules changes, cultural dynamics, etc
one thing i will unequivocally say is I am so glad the Starbury AND1 style ISO on the perimeter crossover followed by a crossover with another crossover has died a painful death and gone away
I will take Brooke Lopez standing on the wing shooting threes all day long over that over dribbling BS they all used to do
Posted on 8/21/24 at 4:34 pm to SlowFlowPro
False
Posted on 8/21/24 at 4:35 pm to therick711
quote:
If hand checks don't matter, why did the NBA crack down on them to improve offensive outcomes.
At the time, with the iso-man D the NBA required, there was more of a benefit.
Now with offenses relying on more movement, passing, team basketball and 3 point shooting, almost all based off the PNR, it's just not as effective.
The PNR kills a hand check entirely.
What's a hand check going to do against this Spursgasm (which was pre-2014 GS Revolution, mind you)
THAT is the beautiful game we have today instead of 90s/00s iso ball and sitting on the shot clock.
Posted on 8/21/24 at 4:36 pm to therick711
Exactly and anyone who’s ever played the game knows how big of a difference it makes. Unfortunately people like SFP only know how to read box scores and have no idea what’s actually happening on the court.
Posted on 8/21/24 at 4:37 pm to supatigah
quote:
one thing i will unequivocally say is I am so glad the Starbury AND1 style ISO on the perimeter crossover followed by a crossover with another crossover has died a painful death and gone away
People forget how ugly it got.
Posted on 8/21/24 at 4:39 pm to SlowFlowPro
lol make believe followed by a video that disproves your entire argument. The icing on the cake is you didn’t even realize the set in that video is an ancient, common set every team ran in past eras.
Posted on 8/21/24 at 4:40 pm to Madking
quote:
The icing on the cake is you didn’t even realize the set in that video is an ancient, common set every team ran in past eras.
The movement, passing, and team play was not part of NBA offenses in the 90s and early 00s (and largely the 80s).
That's what you get when the defensive rules incentivize isolation basketball.
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