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An interesting take on modern basketball (link to a video clip on FB)

Posted on 1/25/24 at 9:28 am
Posted by mdomingue
Lafayette, LA
Member since Nov 2010
47343 posts
Posted on 1/25/24 at 9:28 am
Or maybe why we seem to be seeing a lot of fundamental issues with otherwise talented kids in high school and college.

ETA: Also postulates why Europeans who come here seem to shine in fundamentals.


https://www.facebook.com/reel/2640396289445168
This post was edited on 1/25/24 at 9:31 am
Posted by redfishfan
Baton Rouge
Member since Oct 2015
5542 posts
Posted on 1/25/24 at 9:45 am to
The select AAU model is terrible for the develop of kids. Combine that with unqualified middle school/high school coaches that just run 5 out and hope for the best and you have a weakening of the game. I've watched entire high school games where a single off ball screen wasn't set. How is that even possible.
Posted by Chad504boy
4 posts
Member since Feb 2005
178925 posts
Posted on 1/25/24 at 9:49 am to
very subtle brag comment that "he's such a good coach that does coaching stuff". a coach bragging about himself, imagine that.
Posted by Alt26
Member since Mar 2010
35608 posts
Posted on 1/25/24 at 9:54 am to
The marketing of Michael Jordan was the start of the path down that road. Nike marketed Jordan as a superhuman athlete who essentially just dunked over everyone. "Be like Mike" was the pitch...despite the fact there was only one Mike and very few players could actually "be like him". But, kids everywhere saw the marketing and wanted to style their games like what they saw. A player whose only ability was to be able to ferociously attack the rim and dunk. Ignored was the fact that Jordan was an incredible defender and very skilled at other aspects of the game besides just raw dunking ability.

Then AAU started to overtake HS as the prominent recruiting forum. AAU is nothing but a marketplace for auctioning talented players organized and run by grifters. The coaching is often terrible because the focus of the coaching is not to teach the kids to play a team game. It's to showcase their INDIVIUDAL attributes to attract high "bids" for their services in college, G-League, NBA. Those guys ultimately get recruited because of their athleticism and individual skill. But they have never had any real coaching teaching them the nuisances of playing a team game and having a diverse skill set. That's why many of them are truly awful defenders as young players...because they've never been taught or had anyone demand they play defense...ever.

The only thing that has changed things somewhat for the positive is (1) the rise of Golden State as the marquee team over the past 10 years or so, led by a superstar who is not simply a better athlete than everyone else, but an incredibly skilled player and (2) the influx of European players who are far more skilled early on than their American counterparts. It has started to change the mantra from "be like Mike"...which almost no one can, to "be like Steph, Jokic, etc"....guys who are incredibly skilled players
Posted by AtlantaLSUfan
Baton Rouge
Member since Mar 2009
27191 posts
Posted on 1/25/24 at 9:58 am to
quote:

Alt26

When someone has a take this good, I don’t even know what to say. Nailed it.
Posted by Bench McElroy
Member since Nov 2009
34684 posts
Posted on 1/25/24 at 10:09 am to
In the video, Geno also seems to be placing a lot of blame on the players themselves with the player empowerment culture that is in basketball today. If a coach decides to hold six practices for every game like they do in Europe, players are going to rebel and threaten to transfer to another school or move to another team. So they can't just copy what Europe is doing.
Posted by redfishfan
Baton Rouge
Member since Oct 2015
5542 posts
Posted on 1/25/24 at 10:14 am to
quote:

Those guys ultimately get recruited because of their athleticism and individual skill. But they have never had any real coaching teaching them the nuisances of playing a team game and having a diverse skill set. That's why many of them are truly awful defenders as young players...because they've never been taught or had anyone demand they play defense...ever.



100% perfectly said. Doc Rivers has said this about AAU as well. Too many games means the games get devalued for kids. They don't know how to play hard because it's impossible to give your all over 6 games in 2 days. That mindset is hard to change.
Posted by TeddyPadillac
Member since Dec 2010
30337 posts
Posted on 1/25/24 at 10:25 am to
quote:

The select AAU model is terrible for the develop of kids


try to make highlight defensive plays, but don't actually play real defense.
get the ball back as quickly as possible and sprint down the court and shoot a 3 in the first 5 seconds.
Posted by TeddyPadillac
Member since Dec 2010
30337 posts
Posted on 1/25/24 at 10:42 am to
quote:

The only thing that has changed things somewhat for the positive is (1) the rise of Golden State as the marquee team over the past 10 years or so, led by a superstar who is not simply a better athlete than everyone else, but an incredibly skilled player


I agree with everything else you said, but hard disagree on this.

Steph might not be a better athlete than everyone else, but he's the best shooter to ever play and that's not a discussion. Yes shooting is a skill, but for what Steph does it's well beyond what the average elite shooter can do.
Now we have kids thinking they can shoot from 5' behind the line and that they should come down the court and just pull 3's with no passes ever made.
There's only 1 Steph Curry, and the closest thing to him is probably Damian Lillard and he's not really that close. But now we have kids coming down the court shooting 3's from well behind the line "trying to be like Steph". Everyone wanted to follow the model of GSW, yet there is no other Steph, and there isn't another shooter like Klay either as no one can catch and shoot better than him in the history of the game. Klay catches a ball above his head and doesn't bring the ball down below his head to get his shot off. No one else does that like Klay does routinely, or I should say did.
Steph and Klay shooting a 3 is never a bad shot, regardless of when or how they shoot it. They are special in that way, but too many players think they have a skillset that allows them to take any 3 they want as well b/c so much emphasis is now put on taking more 3s.
There's good 3's and there are bad 3's for 99% of shooters. Steph and Klay are the exception, as well as a few other NBA players. I'm not trying to say shooting 3's is bad, but the problem with most youth teams is they aren't teaching good and bad 3's, they just teach to shoot them as much as you can.


I will say the one thing that Steph has helped with a lot more with younger kids is his dribbling. While he's the best shooter of all time, his work ethic on his handles is well documented and something kids strive to do.
Posted by Prominentwon
LSU, McNeese St. Fan
Member since Jan 2005
95026 posts
Posted on 1/25/24 at 11:21 am to
quote:

2) the influx of European players who are far more skilled early on than their American counterparts. It has started to change the mantra from "be like Mike"...which almost no one can, to "be like Steph, Jokic,


I applaud your post.

Just got finished saying to someone the other day when we were talking about the NBA and how there’s no so much street ball played in it anymore. Teams are drafting European players more and more for a reason. Because they were brought up playing the game more fundamentally than American players, IMO
Posted by Alt26
Member since Mar 2010
35608 posts
Posted on 1/25/24 at 11:30 am to
quote:

Steph might not be a better athlete than everyone else, but he's the best shooter to ever play and that's not a discussion. Yes shooting is a skill, but for what Steph does it's well beyond what the average elite shooter can do.
Now we have kids thinking they can shoot from 5' behind the line and that they should come down the court and just pull 3's with no passes ever made.


Very good point.

The NBA analytics when it comes to shooting has changed the way the game is played. If you are a 7'0 who can't shoot 3's you largely have no place starting in the NBA. Now, the NBA bigs "learn" to shoot over time. But that mindset in college often leads to a lot of ugly offense because you have guys shooting 3's who have no business doing so.

I guess it would be more appropriate to say the Warrior's success has led to more of a preference for a team oriented game with ball movement moreso than what was marketed in Jordan's era which was "get out of the way and give Mike the ball". That's a great strategy...if you have Michael Jordan. Unfortunately, last I checked. There's been only one of those guys.
Posted by SlowFlowPro
With populists, expect populism
Member since Jan 2004
476619 posts
Posted on 1/25/24 at 11:43 am to
quote:

A and how there’s no so much street ball played in it anymore. Teams are drafting European players more and more for a reason.

The change has nothing to do with drafting Euros.

Has everyone forgot the early-mid 00s when Euros were over-drafted due to elevated skill level and were unplayable?

The change is due to better schemes based around analytics/efficiency. That's why the NBA is more skilled than ever. The #2 Euro player currently is one of the biggest hero/iso/street ball guys in the NBA the past 10 years (only Harden may be worse).
Posted by BoardReader
Arkansas
Member since Dec 2007
7392 posts
Posted on 1/25/24 at 4:38 pm to
quote:

he change has nothing to do with drafting Euros.

Has everyone forgot the early-mid 00s when Euros were over-drafted due to elevated skill level and were unplayable?

The change is due to better schemes based around analytics/efficiency. That's why the NBA is more skilled than ever. The #2 Euro player currently is one of the biggest hero/iso/street ball guys in the NBA the past 10 years (only Harden may be worse).



Finally, someone who actually watches the NBA says something.

The idea of Iso ball has been largely dying the slow death around the league since about 2008; right now there is really one true Iso player-- Harden-- and a couple of Hybrids like Luka and Dame to a lesser degree.

Posted by DownSouthCrawfish
Lift every voice and sing
Member since Oct 2011
41211 posts
Posted on 1/25/24 at 5:36 pm to
quote:

Has everyone forgot the early-mid 00s when Euros were over-drafted due to elevated skill level and were unplayable?
Darko Milicic tyfys
Posted by GeauxtigersMs36
The coast
Member since Jan 2018
13218 posts
Posted on 1/25/24 at 6:42 pm to
Yeah the first 2 paragraphs nailed it I didn’t even need to read the 3rd although I bet it nailed another point.
Posted by FightinTigersDammit
Louisiana North
Member since Mar 2006
46425 posts
Posted on 1/25/24 at 10:18 pm to
I know a former coach who likes to say basketball is the most over-coached and under-taught sport in America.
Posted by PrimeTime Money
Houston, Texas, USA
Member since Nov 2012
28016 posts
Posted on 1/26/24 at 6:43 am to
I disagree about the first part about MJ. Maybe that had a small impact, but I think a much larger impact on basketball were the And 1 Mixtapes.

That opened the door for a certain street ball culture to become mainstream.

Even the NBA as a brand has shifted a bit to basketball being portrayed as an urban, street, hip hop sport. It never used to be marketed that way.

I played basktball when AAU was getting big, and when And 1 Mixtapes were big. I remember that culture well. It had nothing to do with Michael Jordan. Allen Iverson was a bigger influence in this regard than Michael Jordan.
Posted by SlowFlowPro
With populists, expect populism
Member since Jan 2004
476619 posts
Posted on 1/26/24 at 7:44 am to
quote:

I disagree about the first part about MJ. Maybe that had a small impact, but I think a much larger impact on basketball were the And 1 Mixtapes.

That opened the door for a certain street ball culture to become mainstream.

Even the NBA as a brand has shifted a bit to basketball being portrayed as an urban, street, hip hop sport. It never used to be marketed that way.

BRO.

Dr. J made his name in Rucker Park in the 70s my dude.
Posted by TheGasMan
Member since Oct 2014
3484 posts
Posted on 1/26/24 at 8:01 am to
I just wish these entitled bastards could hit more than 60% of their free throws in college. You’ve been shooting the same distance for 10 years.
This post was edited on 1/26/24 at 8:06 am
Posted by ghost2most
Member since Mar 2012
7921 posts
Posted on 1/26/24 at 8:54 am to
It's the NBA's marketing of individuals over teams.

Flash over substance.

Tim Duncan is a better player than Kobe and won the same amount of titles but how many kids emulate his game?

Footwork, post position, defense, rebounding, etc. doesn't sell as much as high flying dunks and inefficient fall aways .

AAU only exacerbates this.

Think about hip hop and inner city culture. Look at me. Look at my money.

How many black kids want to grow up and be like John Stockton, Chris Paul or even Hakeem?

Nope. They want to be Kobe, Jordan, Steph (maybe? I think he gets some hate from that group).

This is why I always wanted the Pels to get their true franchise guy from overseas. Yeah, Luka is basically a Euro AAU kid the way he plays, but overall the foreign guys are much less of a pain in the arse.
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