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re: What are your expectations for McMahon’s third season?

Posted on 3/7/24 at 9:29 am to
Posted by thunderbird1100
GSU Eagles fan
Member since Oct 2007
68332 posts
Posted on 3/7/24 at 9:29 am to
quote:

We will have to replace a lot in the portal (losing Wright, Baker, Dean, and Hannibal)


We're losing Cook as well. Fountain and Wilkinson I would put in questionable category as well (they all have covid year to use but, well, we've seen what they bring to the table at this point, if you can upgrade, upgrade). I also wouldnt count:

quote:

Collins and Stewart should be back healthy


Both those guys back necessarily.
This post was edited on 3/7/24 at 9:35 am
Posted by TeddyPadillac
Member since Dec 2010
25590 posts
Posted on 3/7/24 at 9:34 am to
After a terrible start to the season, and getting ready to say we need a new coach, I am very pleased with how the season turned around and went. I just wanted to see improvement and a competitive team with some fight, and they definitely did that.


That being said, it's year 3 at a school with all of the advantages to be good every single year, so i expect to be in the NCAA tourney next year. Not making the tourney would be a failure of a season. I expect a tougher OOC schedule that will challenge us and put us in a good position to comfortably make the tourney even with a 10 win SEC record, and a 10 win SEC record should be the floor of what we are trying to achieve.
I know we are losing a good bit from this team, and we've only got two guys signed, but i don't care. It's the coaches job to figure that out and put a tournament quality team out there.
Posted by TigerFan91
:red:
Member since Jan 2005
27120 posts
Posted on 3/7/24 at 9:34 am to
Is that insider knowledge or just speculation that only bad things will happen
Posted by Madking
Member since Apr 2016
47892 posts
Posted on 3/7/24 at 9:35 am to
LSU 2020-21 defense
FG% -41.9%
3pt%- 30%
DRebs- 27


2023-24
FG%- 42.5%
3pt%- 33.4%
DRebs- 25.3
Posted by thunderbird1100
GSU Eagles fan
Member since Oct 2007
68332 posts
Posted on 3/7/24 at 9:40 am to
quote:

Is that insider knowledge or just speculation that only bad things will happen



No insider knowledge, really just using obvious fallout of Cook here with that one. I just dont see any way he's back with how this season went.

As for Collins/Stewart, I mean neither guy showed much even when they did play. Not to say both or 1 are definitely gone, but are we trying to get better or hope guys who are hurt who never really showed much will be back and be really good all of a sudden?

Put Fountain and Wilkinson in the same boat, they just havent been hurt this year like Collins/Stewart. I'm sure out of those 4, 2 maybe even 3 of them will be back, but maybe Wade spoiled me if you basically dont show much after some time, he just moved on and got someone better. Maybe McMahon will just be loyal to guys like Wilkinson who stuck it out with him here or Fountain who he brought in himself, but again, if we're going to get better you're going to have to trim some of the roster "meh" weight and go out and get guys who can win you more games, bottom line.

Stewart and Collins are going into their 4th years next year, Fountain/Wilkinson in their 5th years should they choose to use it...and have they done anything to get you excited about them over all this time they've been in college? Again, I realize you need a few guys who can maybe just fill the roster and give you some minutes here and there, but we dont need 4 of them among 4th/5th year guys.
This post was edited on 3/7/24 at 9:43 am
Posted by Aforem7
Baton Rouge
Member since Apr 2019
876 posts
Posted on 3/7/24 at 9:45 am to
I kind of already considered Cook lost. Also are you thinking Collins or Stewart possibly enter the portal again?
Posted by Madking
Member since Apr 2016
47892 posts
Posted on 3/7/24 at 9:46 am to
“The players we had in '21-22 were just as much, if not more of a factor to the defensive turnaround as the scheme. Eason, Gaines, Penson, and Mwani were all dogs on defense.”

So were Waters, Williams, Mays, Taylor and Bigby-Williams but that defense wasn’t as good as 21-22 because the scheme we ran in the latter was much better.
Posted by TigerFan91
:red:
Member since Jan 2005
27120 posts
Posted on 3/7/24 at 9:47 am to
Agreed on Cook.

Continuity is a good thing (re Collins and Stewart), if they are still active and engaged with the team and can come back healthy they can definitely still be contributors on a good team. Neither are game breakers but they are good depth pieces. Same with Fountain and Mwani you take them back if they want to come back.

The difference maker or makers, like you previously mentioned, will for sure have to come from the portal. He's done a decent job on hitting on offensive minded big men the last two cycles and will need that again. And he absolutely has to hit at PG and add someone similar to Wright. Maybe Reece Beekman will want to come back home and be the guy away from Bennett's system, if I'm looking at it right he still has the COVID year. But that's just wishful thinking which is all we can do until the portal opens and we get some movement.
This post was edited on 3/7/24 at 9:53 am
Posted by Bert Macklin FBI
Quantico
Member since May 2013
8973 posts
Posted on 3/7/24 at 9:51 am to
Those are very comparable numbers.
Posted by ellessuuuu
Member since Sep 2004
8534 posts
Posted on 3/7/24 at 9:53 am to
We are likely to finish 9-9 this year, and will be close to making the NIT. That is step in the right direction, still a little slow in the portal era, but he’s trying to use a model that is less portal focused and more long-term program player based. That is risky in this era, but not impossible.

However, if that is your model, you have to retain players and you have show continued improvement, as opposed to coaches who are willing to live and die by the portal and rebuild their roster annually, who may have larger swings year-to-year.

All that being said, you need 10+ wins in what will be an even tougher SEC. That by nature should put you in the NCAA tournament mix. Think he really needs to make the NCAA field. A near-miss may be okay depending on the circumstances.
Posted by Alt26
Member since Mar 2010
28372 posts
Posted on 3/7/24 at 9:54 am to
quote:

We were but we were rotating through defensive philosophies at that time and none were nearly as bad as we are now


LSU was horrible on defense for much of Wade's tenure

Year KenPom defensive efficiency rating

17-18: 136
18-19: 59
19-20: 179
20-21: 124

In 21-22 LSU finally became a great defensive team...only for the offense to tank. For all of the good he did, Wade's biggest flaw was his teams (except for 18-19) were terribly imbalanced. They were often elite on one end of the floor and correspondingly bad on the other.

The good news is that McMahon's teams haven't been imbalanced. The bad news is that balance has been achieved by being equally bad on BOTH ends of the floor.

My biggest criticism of McMahon is that he doesn't seem to have a great "feel" for the game. Sometimes it's pretty evident early a guy doesn't have it that game. Yet, he rides with him way too long. There's also been times this season where a guy is hot, yet he gets taken out right in the middle of a heater as if it was almost predetermined he was going to come out at a specific point. There has been multiple times where LSU was in a close game and needed stops/rebounds to close out a game. Yet, Baker was playing the final 4, 5, 6 minutes giving you neither. Sometimes you just have to adjust your plan based upon how your guys are playing at that moment. Sometimes you have to adjust your approach based upon what is most important at that point of the game. He also rarely does anything in game (particularly on defense) to disrupt an opponent's tempo/rhythm. Sometimes you need to throw in a press to speed up an opponent if they are very comfortable in the halfcourt. Sometimes you have to mix in a zone (particularly after a timeout) to slow an opponent down. Arkansas last night was very comfortable in running sets getting them easy shots at the rim....and LSU never really did anything to try to disrupt that. Beit a scheme change or a different lineup.

Every coach at this level understands the basic X's and O's. They all pretty much run the same plays/sets. I promise you, neither LSU nor Arkansas ran any "plays" last night the other had not seen on film. But basketball requires more on-the-fly adjustments than probably any other sport. It's not like football where there is a 40 second gap between the action and players specialize on only one side of the ball. It's not like baseball where the act of offense and the act of defense are two very distinct actions. It's a sport where the players on the floor are constantly transitioning between offense and defense. Often multiple times within a single minute. It's timely adjustments in the approach throughout the game that often make the difference rather than being a "good play caller". When and what adjustments to make takes the ability to quickly sense the flow of the game in that moment.
Posted by Bert Macklin FBI
Quantico
Member since May 2013
8973 posts
Posted on 3/7/24 at 9:56 am to
quote:

So were Waters, Williams, Mays, Taylor and Bigby-Williams


I disagree. Waters made a lot of steals because he gambled a lot, he was awful at keeping his guy in front of him. Williams was a tenacious rebounder but his size made him vulnerable to bigger post players. Mays was always a good “do your job” guy but he wasn’t great on defense. Taylor was an incredible athlete but by no means was he great in either end. Bigby-Williams was a dog. Plus that teams entire philosophy was gamble for TOs and rebound the frick out of the ball. Which was the best strategy for that group of players.

Wade wanted to play the switch everything defense since he got here but couldn’t because a guy like night Williams couldn’t because he didn’t have the personel to do it until 21-22. Scheme definitely plays a part but the players matter.
Posted by Bert Macklin FBI
Quantico
Member since May 2013
8973 posts
Posted on 3/7/24 at 10:05 am to
quote:

It's difficult to set record expectations without first seeing the roster


I disagree. The expectations are what they are. It’s CMM’s job to field a roster to meet those expectations.

We were awful in year one. We showed improvement in year 2. Year 3 has to continue to show improvement. We were 3-5 winnable games from being a tournament team this year. I think the expectation is make the tournament. It’s up to CMM to make that happen.
Posted by Madking
Member since Apr 2016
47892 posts
Posted on 3/7/24 at 10:06 am to
Waters was the SEC defensive player of the year
Posted by Madking
Member since Apr 2016
47892 posts
Posted on 3/7/24 at 10:07 am to
Right, they’re comparable, you said 2020-21 was comically worse and this years was better. Thats incorrect
Posted by Bert Macklin FBI
Quantico
Member since May 2013
8973 posts
Posted on 3/7/24 at 10:10 am to
quote:

Waters was the SEC defensive player of the year


Waters made a lot of steals that year. He still struggled to keep his man out of the lane. Lucky for him Kavell was there to clean up.
Posted by thunderbird1100
GSU Eagles fan
Member since Oct 2007
68332 posts
Posted on 3/7/24 at 10:19 am to
quote:

I kind of already considered Cook lost. Also are you thinking Collins or Stewart possibly enter the portal again?



IT wouldn't be out the realm of possibility is what I'm saying. Neither did a thing this year, who knows how much their injuries are truly what's holding them back or its something else. They could have been sitting out this long to try and preserve this year as a medical redshirt or something as well, just never know.
Posted by mcspufftiger7
Member since Oct 2020
1888 posts
Posted on 3/7/24 at 10:25 am to
And a lot of Waters steals were on help defense which he was good at. And we had the rim protector in the lane when he missed. If we had just had a Bigby Williams on this team they would have won 3-4 more SEC games. If Mcmahon can get higher quality big men and a quality PG in the portal I think they will make the tournament next year if he can keep the core players, Ward Reed Chest Collins and Williams. Wouldn't count Cook out just yet and I think Stewart is coming back.
Posted by Madking
Member since Apr 2016
47892 posts
Posted on 3/7/24 at 10:26 am to
I’m sure you’re using irrefutable data and comparisons to arrive at that conclusion.
Posted by thunderbird1100
GSU Eagles fan
Member since Oct 2007
68332 posts
Posted on 3/7/24 at 10:30 am to
quote:

Continuity is a good thing (re Collins and Stewart), if they are still active and engaged with the team and can come back healthy they can definitely still be contributors on a good team. Neither are game breakers but they are good depth pieces. Same with Fountain and Mwani you take them back if they want to come back.



Here's the issue though, lets say all 4 come back (Wilk, Fountain, Stewart, Collins), we lose the 4 previously mentioned (Hannibal, Dean, Baker, Wright) plus Cook. So have to replace 5 guys leaving in total at that point. We got 2 freshmen coming in so now we can only take 3 guys from the portal. Those 3 guys ALL better be pretty awesome starter caliber players. You cant take any "depth" pieces at that point in the portal. Can we trust that McMahon is going to go 3 for 3 in the portal? I dont, I'm pretty sure no one really does.

Build the roster this way next season...

G Givens (FR.)
G Williams
G Stewart
G/F Ward
F Wilkinson
F Reed
F Chest
F Fountain
F Collins
F Miller (FR.)

Again, looking at that, I would rather not leave it up to McMahon to go 3 for 3 effectively in portal to find 3 guys who can start or play a ton of minutes who are high quality. Now take away 1 or 2 out of Wilk/Fountain/Collins/Stewart, none of which I think anyone would consider a terrible loss...now he can go out and get 4 or 5 transfers and still only need 3 of them really to "hit". Odds get a lot better he can do that, than go out and find 3 high quality guys for 3 slots (that all stay healthy throughout the season, too).

The roster before the portal I posted above is nothing to get excited about, thats for sure. Unless Chest breaks out and is Tyrus Thomas in his redshirt freshman year or maybe one of the other incoming freshmen give you a lot more than expected, we need to find multiple high quality guys in the portal...and the odds of doing that increases with the number of players you take from there.
This post was edited on 3/7/24 at 10:37 am
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