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Message
re: LSU Basketball is Dead
Posted on 1/19/23 at 10:02 am to monsterballads
Posted on 1/19/23 at 10:02 am to monsterballads
The ncaa hammer didn’t fall on unc for fake classes, nothing on zona.
They don’t have much they can do considering what is going on.
Kids that win in the sec don’t care about the tourny. They care about getting to the next level.
It’s probably scoring under 60 and being boring that is just as scary to big recruits. No one wants to play in a boring system.
We aren’t UVA and MM isn’t Bennett. MM needs an update to his style and some life in him if he wants to make in the sec.
I’d love to see him do it but the signs are pointing toward him being a vanilla TJ.
They don’t have much they can do considering what is going on.
Kids that win in the sec don’t care about the tourny. They care about getting to the next level.
It’s probably scoring under 60 and being boring that is just as scary to big recruits. No one wants to play in a boring system.
We aren’t UVA and MM isn’t Bennett. MM needs an update to his style and some life in him if he wants to make in the sec.
I’d love to see him do it but the signs are pointing toward him being a vanilla TJ.
1
Posted on 1/19/23 at 10:04 am to Smokin Joe Dumas
woodward didn't want LSU's name in the news regurgitating old shite every couple of months with pat forde. forde has an ax to grind with wade/lsu and was going to keep giving "updates" so long as wade was coach.
wade was not woody's hire so he didn't feel like he owed anything to him. wade lied to woody about his involvement, got caught and the rest is history. woody didn't see an option of sticking with wade as the coach, even though in the long run, it might have been the right call. take the sanctions, keep wade, sit out the tournament for a year or two and keep building a monster. woody didn't want to go that route obviously and hired a squeaky clean coach that won't get top talent, has no real on court energy or fire and his teams are going to look sloppy and poorly coached. this is what LSU bball will be for a long time. buckle in, because it's going to be a long road.
wade was not woody's hire so he didn't feel like he owed anything to him. wade lied to woody about his involvement, got caught and the rest is history. woody didn't see an option of sticking with wade as the coach, even though in the long run, it might have been the right call. take the sanctions, keep wade, sit out the tournament for a year or two and keep building a monster. woody didn't want to go that route obviously and hired a squeaky clean coach that won't get top talent, has no real on court energy or fire and his teams are going to look sloppy and poorly coached. this is what LSU bball will be for a long time. buckle in, because it's going to be a long road.
Posted on 1/19/23 at 10:06 am to monsterballads
Which means woody shouldn’t be AD. Allowing Forde and. Dickie V to be any piece of that decision was pathetic.
Saying we fired wade to save football is fine and just, saying the negative writers have to stop is pathetic.
Woody has stepped in piles of shite on every single thing after he made the decision to fire will because he wasn’t his guy.
Saying we fired wade to save football is fine and just, saying the negative writers have to stop is pathetic.
Woody has stepped in piles of shite on every single thing after he made the decision to fire will because he wasn’t his guy.
Posted on 1/19/23 at 10:08 am to monsterballads
quote:
if there is no tournament (sanctions) in LSU's future, you aren't going to attract top talent. it's just not going to happen.
they have been talking about the hammer for 4 years now, and somehow Wade and McMahon have been able to bring in top 20 classes in with no problem, so I do expect CMM to get sec level players.
He will get at least 3 years but by then if we aren't a top 60ish team then any other years being spent on him will be wasted.
Posted on 1/19/23 at 10:10 am to monsterballads
Woodward making his decision partially based on Pat frickin Forde is a bad look but probably true.
Happy with what he’s done for the most part but his handling of the Wade situation was not good.
Happy with what he’s done for the most part but his handling of the Wade situation was not good.
Posted on 1/19/23 at 10:16 am to monsterballads
quote:
kids want to be on TV during the tournament. if there is no tournament (sanctions) in LSU's future, you aren't going to attract top talent. it's just not going to happen.
the NCAA hammer has to fall sooner than later or it's going to be an even longer process to get LSU bball back to where it was.
LSU is NOT going to get a postseason ban. It is chicken little fearmongering from the fanbase who doesn't actually pay attention to what is going on. 6 schools (including LSU) were turned over the IARP for investigation. NONE of the schools that have had their cases adjudicated thus far have received a postseason ban (NC State, Memphis, Arizona). The IARP has sent a pretty transparent message they choosing to punish the "bad actors" (i.e. coaches) as opposed to players and coaches who had nothing to do with the misconduct. That's not good for Will Wade, but it is for the LSU program moving forward.
In no other major NCAA sport can you turn around a program as quickly has you can in basketball. Iowa State 2-22(0-18) to the NCAA Tournament (Sweet 16). Kansas St - 3 straight losing seasons to first place in the Big 12 (when the polls come out next week) top 10 in the country.
In NO WAY am I saying the expectations for LSU basketball this season should have been that high. But the narrative that it should take 3, 4, 5 years to get back to being competitive is complete bullshite! The right coach/staff can come in and completely turnaround a program within a year or two. And that is now exponentially easier with the freedom of transfer rule.
Clearly McMahon is not going to get that done in year 1. That's ok. But with the ability to so easily turnover your roster (if necessary) from year to year comes a decreased level of patience. Gone are the days where a new coach has to come in and piece together his roster with questionable JUCO transfers and scraps from the HS recruiting bin until he can hit on a few big recruiting classes with the hope that he may have a great team in year 3 or 4.
Posted on 1/19/23 at 10:17 am to Sun God
Exactly. Firing Wade for cheating is fine, firing him to save football is fine as well. Firing him because he wasn’t your guy is shite leadership and firing him because the media wrote nasty things about us is beyond weak.
The way he fired him was pathetic for someone claimed to be the best AD. How our team found out was even worse failure by him. His letter was maybe even worse than failing the team. Then he compounds it with a bad hire. He went cheap and extremely boring.
If it had to be done then reason 1 and 2 work, tell the team first and in person. Then never write a letter like that.
Woody did a good job getting Kim here, did a great job getting BK in, and did great work on JJ. However, the wade firing MM hiring has been a complete disaster for him.
He also has stepped in shite when he let a reporter bait him into bringing up a dead topic about O before the 21 season. He also did a piss poor job justifying keeping Verge, for the sexually issues our program had. Then Verge pays him back by not even getting his own kids to LSU.
I like to bag on Scotty for sucking but it’s more like he has been average. We have some good and some bad. He isn’t a super AD.
The way he fired him was pathetic for someone claimed to be the best AD. How our team found out was even worse failure by him. His letter was maybe even worse than failing the team. Then he compounds it with a bad hire. He went cheap and extremely boring.
If it had to be done then reason 1 and 2 work, tell the team first and in person. Then never write a letter like that.
Woody did a good job getting Kim here, did a great job getting BK in, and did great work on JJ. However, the wade firing MM hiring has been a complete disaster for him.
He also has stepped in shite when he let a reporter bait him into bringing up a dead topic about O before the 21 season. He also did a piss poor job justifying keeping Verge, for the sexually issues our program had. Then Verge pays him back by not even getting his own kids to LSU.
I like to bag on Scotty for sucking but it’s more like he has been average. We have some good and some bad. He isn’t a super AD.
Posted on 1/19/23 at 10:18 am to Big4SALTbro
Not sure if those expecting "draconian sanctions" on LSU basketball are ignorant or dishonest. Couple scholarships is the most that will happen. Likely not even loss of scholarships. Just have to look at recent similar cases. Wade may be scapegoated with a show cause but this is more and more dubious as time passes.
This post was edited on 1/19/23 at 10:26 am
Posted on 1/19/23 at 10:35 am to Big4SALTbro
quote:
The way he fired him was pathetic for someone claimed to be the best AD. How our team found out was even worse failure by him. His letter was maybe even worse than failing the team.
While I completely understand why the decision was made to fire Wade (even though I didn't like it) the way it was done and the timing was completely vindictive chickenshit by the AD. If you actually give a shite about the players you don't fire their coach on the even of the NCAA Tournament in an effort to sabotage their chance for success to get the out of the tournament ASAP. Wade could have been fired after LSU was bounced out. But Woodward didn't want to risk LSU having any success in the tournament.
quote:
Then he compounds it with a bad hire. He went cheap and extremely boring.
Just like it was dumb a month ago to call it a great hire, it's still too early to call it a bad hire. And I'm not so sure I'd agree the hire was cheap and extremely boring. 6 schools, nearly half the league, made coaching changes ahead of this season. ALL hired mid-major coaches except for Georgia who hired the coach Florida got rid of. I can't imagine ALL of those teams simply decided they weren't going to look for a big name coach. The fact of the matter is you can only hire someone who wants the job. And I don't think any big time coaches wanted the job. Everyone likes to point to Mulkey as the type of hire LSU should have made. But she is a Louisiana native who had a child attend LSU. There were significant non-basketball connections that made LSU appealing for her. Last I checked, there aren't any top tier LSU alum/Louisiana native HCs out there.
Given the potential REALISTIC options McMahon probably wasn't a "bad hire". Hell, he had a longer history of mid-major success than Wade when Wade was hired.
While the last 3 weeks have been incredibly disappointing, it is still too early to say whether McMahon will ultimately have success at LSU or not. I know this is the Rant, but perhaps the solution is to (1) stop declaring a new coach the "savior" after just a few games of weak competition and (2) stop declaring him a "disaster" after a rough few weeks of games. I watched this board declare Johnson and Jones as the "saviors" of LSU basketball in their first seasons too.
I don't know if McMahon is going to be a great HC...and neither does anyone else here. We won't know that answer for a few years.
This post was edited on 1/19/23 at 10:36 am
Posted on 1/19/23 at 10:40 am to The Pirate King
quote:
This part of the schedule was always going to be murderer’s row. I’m not particularly surprised by the result
I'm pretty surprised when we get beat by 20, then 18 back to back and can't score over 50 points in a game. I wasn't expecting immediate success, but we should always be competitive. We are a complete dumpster fire.
Posted on 1/19/23 at 10:42 am to WeComin504
quote:
Hoping one day we can get this thing back to where it was but we are in for some dark days before we see the light again. Geaux Tigers!
Agreed, but we all knew this....and most think McMahon can given some time.
The problem is LSU upset Arky to start SEC play and everyone on this board went nuts saying this was a Tournament team.
Posted on 1/19/23 at 10:52 am to Bmath
Look around at the top teams in the conference. Now look at their coaches. Almost everyone has been in trouble for recruiting at one time or another. Research Coach Pearl our opposition last night. College basketball is 65% recruiting, 25% practice and 10 % in game coaching. Woodward probably told McMahon that if he had even a breath of scandal he was gone. That along with no facilities, no money from the alums will mean no meaningful recruits, which means terrible teams for three years and then another coach who has to build up from the bottom. More good times for us die hard fans who have suffered for so long! Color me disgusted!
Posted on 1/19/23 at 10:57 am to VolNavy98
quote:And baseball is as boring as watching paint dry even when they do have a good team.
It’s ok, baseball season is about to start.
Posted on 1/19/23 at 11:01 am to WeComin504
well the entire team entered the transfer portal when CWW was canned. CMM did well to retain what he could and scrap together the rest from the portal. i'm not sure what yall expected this year.
i think woody could have fought harder to keep Wade, but that doesn't change the garbage situation Mcmahon inherited.
i think woody could have fought harder to keep Wade, but that doesn't change the garbage situation Mcmahon inherited.
This post was edited on 1/19/23 at 11:04 am
Posted on 1/19/23 at 11:17 am to Alt26
Alt26, I respect your basketball knowledge. You usually make well thought out, non emotional comments. But weren't you just arguing that you couldn't judge McMahon by the players that he had but what he did with them and that no one should give him a pass? Yes, fans like me sometimes are quick to judge a new coach. But he has gotten underwhelming play from the supposedly pretty good players he has had. Starting from the very first game to the present with the exception of maybe four or five games.
quote:Yes, a miracle could happen and this team will turn it around and win some more games but not likely. And how do you come back from a season like this without going out and paying a couple of great players to come here? I don't follow recruiting but is there even a hint that McMahon has a chance at that?
While the last 3 weeks have been incredibly disappointing, it is still too early to say whether McMahon will ultimately have success at LSU or not.
Posted on 1/19/23 at 11:27 am to monsterballads
quote:
if LSU mens basketball was ranked top 5 in the country and was crushing teams every week, the pmac would be rocking for them too
I agree 100%. It’s not marketing or anything else, but WINNING that excite fans and packs stadiums/arenas.
Posted on 1/19/23 at 11:39 am to Tom Bronco
quote:
Alt26, I respect your basketball knowledge. You usually make well thought out, non emotional comments. But weren't you just arguing that you couldn't judge McMahon by the players that he had but what he did with them and that no one should give him a pass? Yes, fans like me sometimes are quick to judge a new coach. But he has gotten underwhelming play from the supposedly pretty good players he has had. Starting from the very first game to the present with the exception of maybe four or five games.
After every loss we have some screaming "what did you expect? He had no players in April. It's going to take a while to rebuild". My argument is that the expectation it should take multiple years to rebuild is antiquated with the transfer rules. So I don't subscribe to the notion he should get a blanket pass regardless of how this season ultimately turns out. But also don't believe it's fair to definitively declare he is a horrible coach that should be fired only 18 games into his LSU tenure.
I thought the very best LSU could realistically hope for in the first 8 SEC games was 4-4. Obviously that is not going to happen. But I did not expect them to get blown out by double-digits in multiple games during that stretch. I never thought this team was talented enough to compete at the top of the league. But I did, and still do, think the roster is good enough that they should be competitive in the middle of the league with teams like A&M and Florida, and be able to hang at HOME with a good, but not dominant team like Auburn. In the last 2 weeks McMahon and his staff have underperformed. I think that is a reasonable criticism that doesn't go to one extreme ("look where he started! There should be no criticism whatsoever) or the other ("He's horrible! Fire this clown now!")
Posted on 1/19/23 at 11:40 am to monsterballads
quote:
kids want to be on TV during the tournament. if there is no tournament (sanctions) in LSU's future, you aren't going to attract top talent. it's just not going to happen. the NCAA hammer has to fall sooner than later or it's going to be an even longer process to get LSU bball back to where it was.
Will wade had a top 10 class coming in this year with “sanctions looming”.
Posted on 1/19/23 at 11:46 am to WeComin504
This is what happens when you fire a fan favorite coach who was building up the program for what is literally the normal standard operating procedure.
Posted on 1/19/23 at 11:50 am to Mickey Goldmill
quote:
We are 4th in the SEC in 3pt%
LSU is 6th in SEC games at a bad 30.8% from 3 and dead last in 2pt% at an embarrassing 38.8%.
Translation: Bad offense is bad.
Meanwhile, opponents shoot a conference-best 56.7% inside the arc against the Tigers.
Translation: Bad team is bad.
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