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Started By
Message
re: low expectations for this lsu team predate coach O.
Posted on 4/12/18 at 10:57 am to Goldrush25
Posted on 4/12/18 at 10:57 am to Goldrush25
quote:
He certainly does. Time will tell.
I just don't want any excuses this year.
There won't be. If he fricks it up bad this season, he won't have an ally anywhere in sight.
1
Posted on 4/12/18 at 11:06 am to stephendomalley
I thought u got rid of a coach to make things better and raise expectations, not keep it status quo.
Posted on 4/12/18 at 11:11 am to boxcar willie
quote:This isn't like choosing plays and personnel in a video game.
I liked his style and play calling in the interim
Playcalls are only a part of being OC, so not really a good indicator.
The real OC test is teaching technique, timing, etc and molding it all into the play that's called.
Steve hasn't been an OC long enough at one program to judge what he can do on his own, imo.
Posted on 4/12/18 at 11:14 am to GeauxTigerTM
quote:
See...the problem here is the "but."
It presumes that even though we ALL KNOW that we could have done much better than Ole Miss' worst coach in their history to follow not one but TWO successive coaches who won National titles at our program, we are now being told, "Sure...it's was a bad hire...but can't we just sit back and hope for it not to turn out as shitty as the hire indicates it will...?"
No. Doing so gives the impression that we were all on board with the hire even you conclude was far less than we could have gotten. We have had our prgram's hands tied behind its back by this VERY underwhelming hire at a time when the SEC has reloaded in terms of coaching talent, and suggesting we all ought to sit quietly in the corner while the house burns down around us seems like thew kind of advice that would be proffered by the very people holding the gas can and matches.
Also, for all intents and purposes, this is Year 3. Orgeron coached all but for games of the 2016 season. If people want to give him total credit for what they consider some huge turnaround the tail end of that year (I'd disagree there was any, but whatever) then they must also accept that he's well beyond what would have been the beginning of Season 2 under a new coach that would have come in after the 2016 season ended.
I don't think the house is burning down around us. There's not proof to conclude that right now.
I never have thought he made some huge turnaround in 2016. I think the team improved, but not by some huge degree.
Posted on 4/12/18 at 11:27 am to Mayhawman
quote:
The real OC test is teaching technique, timing, etc and molding it all into the play that's called.
and all that suddenly looked way better when Ensminger took over as well. REally worked a miracle
Posted on 4/12/18 at 11:38 am to boxcar willie
I don't think you quite get it. SE didn't install, or pre-arrange the 2016 offense, just called the plays practiced in spring and summer.
Carry on though.
Carry on though.
Posted on 4/12/18 at 11:40 am to boxcar willie
Opening up someone else’s offense is different than being an good OC.
Once we ran into good defenses we were back to being mediocre to shitty.
Once we ran into good defenses we were back to being mediocre to shitty.
Posted on 4/12/18 at 11:43 am to olgoi khorkhoi
No coach would have sacrificed a season to let Brennan get experience particularly in the offense Canada ran..
O’s mistake was making a snap judgement to hire Canada.
I think this team will surprise some folks.
O’s mistake was making a snap judgement to hire Canada.
I think this team will surprise some folks.
Posted on 4/12/18 at 11:44 am to JohnnyU
our offense was really bad. We may have sacrificed a game starting Brennan.
We also may have won another game starting Brennan.
We also may have won another game starting Brennan.
Posted on 4/12/18 at 2:27 pm to geauxtigs999
quote:
I don't think the house is burning down around us. There's not proof to conclude that right now.
I guess it's a matter of perspective, but when you consider that LSU hired a man with a career head coaching record of 10-25, 3-21 to replace TWO coaches that had won national titles since 2000, and after hand picking his own choice for OC dumps him in favor of the previous coach's TE's coach who himself had not been an OC for nearly 20 years...I'd call that a VERY troubling situation and one I think we'd have all agreed on when we were talking about Miles' replacement before he was let go. Add to that the inexplicable historic losses to Miss St and Troy, another beat down by BAMA, his inability to get along with (or even want the style he hired him to run) his own hand picked OC choice, and our worst ranked recruiting class since our run began back in 2000...I'd say this is as close as we've been to a house on fire as we have since Gerry DiNardo was here.
Again...think of it this way...back in 2015 when Miles' seat got so hot they were looking for the replacement...what do you think the average LSU fan's feeling would have been if someone would have suggested hiring a guy who's only HC experience was nearly a decade before and who's record was 10-25...and he'd have as his OC a guy who had not been any significant OC even when he last was one during the Clinton Administration? the only way that would have been acceptable is if ALL OTHER OPTIONS were taken out in some kind of rouge nuclear strike hitting only quality football coaches...and that's all we had left.
If the above would have sent you into a panic prior to Miles' being fired...why doesn't it still? Other than putting names to the coaches, everything else remains the same.
Posted on 4/12/18 at 2:36 pm to JohnnyU
What makes you say the decision to hire Canada was a "snap judgment"? Perhaps it was, but I have never heard that. I will say that one of the many issues I have with Orgeron as a coach and person is his impulsiveness, however, If he did this hire as a "snap judgment", then it is a self inflicted wound. However, because Orgeron does not seem to learn well, either, I do not expect him to avoid this problem next time.
Posted on 4/12/18 at 2:38 pm to stephendomalley
This is a good argument for why we should have fired Miles 5 years ago.
Posted on 4/12/18 at 4:05 pm to GeauxTigerTM
quote:
I guess it's a matter of perspective, but when you consider that LSU hired a man with a career head coaching record of 10-25, 3-21 to replace TWO coaches that had won national titles since 2000, and after hand picking his own choice for OC dumps him in favor of the previous coach's TE's coach who himself had not been an OC for nearly 20 years...I'd call that a VERY troubling situation and one I think we'd have all agreed on when we were talking about Miles' replacement before he was let go. Add to that the inexplicable historic losses to Miss St and Troy, another beat down by BAMA, his inability to get along with (or even want the style he hired him to run) his own hand picked OC choice, and our worst ranked recruiting class since our run began back in 2000...I'd say this is as close as we've been to a house on fire as we have since Gerry DiNardo was here.
Again...think of it this way...back in 2015 when Miles' seat got so hot they were looking for the replacement...what do you think the average LSU fan's feeling would have been if someone would have suggested hiring a guy who's only HC experience was nearly a decade before and who's record was 10-25...and he'd have as his OC a guy who had not been any significant OC even when he last was one during the Clinton Administration? the only way that would have been acceptable is if ALL OTHER OPTIONS were taken out in some kind of rouge nuclear strike hitting only quality football coaches...and that's all we had left.
If the above would have sent you into a panic prior to Miles' being fired...why doesn't it still? Other than putting names to the coaches, everything else remains the same.
Miss State and Troy losses we were playing with a bunch of freshmen on the DL with Lawrence, Alexander, and Key hurt. He signed a bunch of quality DL to help fix that problem.
But I agree, what you say looks bad on paper, but games aren't played on paper. Ensminger isn't an idiot, so maybe he succeeds and just needed a chance. Brennan/Narcisse are probably more talented than our last few QBs. Have to replace Guice, but can be done by committee with Curry coming in. Let's see what happens over the next nine months, all is not lost.
Posted on 4/12/18 at 4:19 pm to geauxtigs999
quote:
Miss State and Troy losses we were playing with a bunch of freshmen on the DL with Lawrence, Alexander, and Key hurt.
The State loss was the worst to them in the history of our game...and that goes back to 1896. 111 total meetings. Freshman on the DL can't possibly be the acceptable reason for a 30 point loss to State when we've never come close to getting bashed by them like that ever.
Do I even have to point out that we ought to beat teams from CUSA with our second string handily, or are we still going to pretend that Troy was more talented than the team we could field that early in the season...despite our glaring obvious recruiting advantages for years?
quote:
But I agree, what you say looks bad on paper, but games aren't played on paper.
Right...they're played on the field where last year we lost two of our worst games in recent memory, and you brushed them aside as if it was understandable because we played some talented youth.
quote:
Ensminger isn't an idiot, so maybe he succeeds and just needed a chance.
No one is saying he is, and to tell the truth it pains me to speak ill of Ensminger as he's the first QB I really remember as an LSU fan. Unlike Orgeron, Steve REALLY IS a Tiger and I respect the hell out of him for that. and yet, it's absolutely true that the man has not been a full time OC for 20 years...that really does matter. Now...what if he succeeds? Then he bucks the odds of what any reasonable person would expect from a man who's not held that job for 2 decades...and that would make me happy!!!
The question is...why are we putting ourselves in a position to have to have a man buck the odds for success? Much the same for Orgeron...why hire a man who if he succeeds it will be against all odds rather than hiring the best available candidate and going with the odds? LSU ought not be a job where it's ok to hire just anyone and then ask the fan base to shut up and sit down and hope for the miracle to will require. We should not be hiring ANYONE that no other Power 5 conference team wanted in any of the Big 3 coaching slots...and that's literally the case for 2 out of our 3.
Posted on 4/12/18 at 4:42 pm to GeauxTigerTM
quote:
The question is...why are we putting ourselves in a position to have to have a man buck the odds for success? Much the same for Orgeron...why hire a man who if he succeeds it will be against all odds rather than hiring the best available candidate and going with the odds? LSU ought not be a job where it's ok to hire just anyone and then ask the fan base to shut up and sit down and hope for the miracle to will require. We should not be hiring ANYONE that no other Power 5 conference team wanted in any of the Big 3 coaching slots...and that's literally the case for 2 out of our 3.
I agree. Our AD is an idiot.
But now that he made that move, we can move on for now.
Our 2nd string should be good enough to beat Troy, but they weren't. Troy every year has a few guys go to the pros, they aren't horrendous. It will be nice this year and probably every year in the future that our backup linemen aren't freshmen.
Posted on 4/12/18 at 4:48 pm to cj2002
quote:
I won't judge O for his 1st HC job at Ole Miss, over a Decade ago.
Yet on April 8th, you posted that Miles "in 4 season at OkieSt. he only made 3 bowl games" and "In the 3 bowl games, he only won 1."
So you won't judge o for what he did at Ole Miss over a decade ago, but you have no problem judging Miles for what he did at Oklahoma State over a decade ago.
And you claim that Miles should have never been hired, but as far as o is concerned, you have no comment.
Make perfect sense.
Posted on 4/12/18 at 4:51 pm to GeauxTigerTM
quote:
cj2002
quote:
Any more tidbits?
That guy has to be the most clueless poster on the rant. And it's not even close.
This post was edited on 4/12/18 at 6:27 pm
Posted on 4/12/18 at 5:21 pm to RedTigerRulz
quote:
If he fricks it up bad this season, he won't have an ally anywhere in sight.
You've obviously never paid any attention to any post by Space Clownboy, Tiger Ree or LSUMIKEV.
Posted on 4/13/18 at 9:19 am to GeauxTigerTM
quote:
The State loss was the worst to them in the history of our game...and that goes back to 1896. 111 total meetings. Freshman on the DL can't possibly be the acceptable reason for a 30 point loss to State when we've never come close to getting bashed by them like that ever.
well it was probably the biggest mismatch in talent levels and experience, being what we were able to field that day, in 111 meetings. So there is that.
Troy loss was just one of those freak events like what with Saben against ULM and other teams he lost to while having a huge talent advantage. It has haooened to even the best like Sabun on quite a few occasions. .
This post was edited on 4/13/18 at 9:22 am
Posted on 4/13/18 at 9:25 am to boxcar willie
quote:
Troy loss was just one of those freak events like what with Saben against ULM and other teams he lost to while having a huge talent advantage. It has haooened to even the best like Sabun on quite a few occasions. .
r u sayin tht o iz juzt lyk saben? It wud b gr8t if o wuz juzt lyk sabun!
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