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Started By
Message
re: Behind the scenes: Alleva's shocking micromanagement of LSU football
Posted on 10/11/17 at 8:59 am to Skidaddy
Posted on 10/11/17 at 8:59 am to Skidaddy
quote:
Thank you sir and to Salviati for pointing this out. I have listened to the podcast 3 times and NO WHERE in it does Mr. Landry say "directing the offense and defense in the background"
I agree and did not hear "directing the offense and defense in the background". When a reporter says "probably", this means he is speculating and there is no conformation of his statement.
My takeaway is that Alleva got involved and affirmed that O was to let the coordinators do their job and "O does not have a head coach gig waiting after this job, but the coordinators have careers beyond coaching at LSU."
Basically, let them do their jobs. Is this a normal thing that happens at universities? Apparently not when Miles was there as Alleva was basically shrugged off by CLM, but O does not have that luxury, apparently.
1
Posted on 10/11/17 at 8:59 am to JPLSU1981
What I see is your distortion of the allegations linked in your OP.
I have no problems with Alleva being fired, just lying to accomplish that aim.
I have no problems with Alleva being fired, just lying to accomplish that aim.
Posted on 10/11/17 at 9:02 am to Sid in Lakeshore
quote:
I have no problems with Alleva being fired, just lying to accomplish that aim.
Alleva would do the same to any of us in the same position. The weasel has demonstrated he is a weasel.
Posted on 10/11/17 at 9:02 am to Sid in Lakeshore
quote:
I have no problems with Alleva being fired, just lying to accomplish that aim.
Understood.
Listen to the podcast. There are no lies in my post, and it is not my podcast.
Posted on 10/11/17 at 9:02 am to JPLSU1981
quote:
The guy earlier that says my post is untrue is playing Tomato/Tomatoe game. Call it what you want, but Alleva is in meetings with coordinators and head coach deciding how this team is going to be run the rest of the way. I think fans deserve to listen for themselves and make their own judgments.
To play devil's advocate here, Alleva hired Orgeron with the understanding that the OC and DC would have a fair amount of autonomy. Orgeron takes away autonomy from the OC, Alleva steps in and reminds him that he needs to "let his coaches coach." Seems to me in that instance, however irregular it may have been, Alleva was actually doing his job.
Now, I don't know what to make of Alleva and Orgeron watching film together, but it doesn't sound good.
Posted on 10/11/17 at 9:06 am to JPLSU1981
quote:
JPLSU has an agenda.
quote:
LISTEN: Behind the scenes look at Joe Alleva's shocking micromanagement of LSU football
Our athletic director is now watching film with the head coach on Sundays, and directing the management of offense and defense in the background.
How is this guy still employed at LSU? This is getting beyond ridiculous.
You are drawing HUGE assumptions here. I heard he reminded O that he would not interfere and is not "managing" the direction of the play calling. You should EDIT your post and subject to reflect the "Podcast that give information of what was talked about in the meeting." You, sir, are "leading" the witness!
Posted on 10/11/17 at 9:11 am to Chicken
This type of interaction by the AD - whether caused by mistrust of the HC, or internecine feuding between coordinators and HC or the AD wanting to be overactive in the running of the football team - will not end well for LSU and will not result in championship level performance.
This speaks to significant dysfunction and that usually always precedes organizational performance failure and a subsequent restructuring. This is not good.
I hate it's happening to our beloved Tigers.
This speaks to significant dysfunction and that usually always precedes organizational performance failure and a subsequent restructuring. This is not good.
I hate it's happening to our beloved Tigers.
Posted on 10/11/17 at 9:12 am to JPLSU1981
Make no mistake. I'm sure Ogeron WANTS and is asking Alleva to sit in on meetings, film session, etc. It's the HC basically kissing the AD's arse to make sure he remains the HC. That's all this is.
Ogeron spent every waking second last season campaingin for the permanaent job. He was smart enough to know this was his ONLY shot for another power conf. HC job. USC passed on him. NO ONE in the SEC besides LSU would ever consider him for their HC position after the Ole Miss boondoggle. Hell, even LSU didn't want him as their first choice. If LSU did not have one of the WORST Athletic Directors in the COUNTRY, Ed Ogeron is the DL coach somewhere else this year badmouthing his "dream school" (LSU)
So now you have a situation where the new HC is, predictably, tanking the program. Ed knows the fans are furious. He knows that MANY didn't want him to be the HC in the first place. He knows much (not all) of the media thought it was ridiculous that LSU replaced Les Miles with basically a cartoon character.
The first plan of attack was to quiet all the naysayers by winning and showing he could lead a dominant program. After a historic loss to an average MSU team and an even more embarrassing loss vs. a Sun Belt opponent, that plan went out the window because it was clear, AGAIN, that Ogeron isn't good enough to win on merit.
Now he has gone to plan B with the SOLE goal of making sure HE remains the HC. That plan is to become extra-tight with the guy who hired and who can fire him. That's all this is. Job preservation. In the process Ed is throwing everyone under the bus but him (players aren't good enough; coaches aren't good enough) and trying to convince Alleva that nothing that is going wrong this season is Ed's fault.
What's going to happen, because Joe Alleva is a fricking clown, is this:
LSU will scrape together just enough wins in a really bad SEC to get to a bowl game. O will talk about how that's not good enough and what LSU really needs is "better players" (ignore the fact that the recruiting class likely won't be as good as the last 2-3 years); The coordinators will leave. Every head coach in the country already knew that Ogeron is a clown as an HC. NOW they will have proof that LSU's administration is clown show. It will be VERY easy for other coaches to pick off LSU's assistants. I can't imagine any of them are particularly thrilled with current mess at LSU. Ed will then bring in his OWN bunch of knuckleheads and things will really start to slide down.
If ANYONE at LSU had ANY business sense whatsoever, they would eat this multi-million dollar mistake and basically chalk it up as a bad debt. They would then get a competent AD in as soon as possible and allow him to fire Ogeron and get a real coach to lead this program. In doing so, you give the new coach a chance to right the ship very quickly. There are a lot of 1st and 2nd year players on this roster to build with. You suffer a bit of a set back in the 2018 recruiting class (like Texas and UGA did). However, you put yourself in good position to capitalize on what looks to be a really good 2019 crop of Louisiana players or players with Louisiana ties.
NOW is the time to treat the wound. If you don't, you're going to end up having to lop off the leg 2 years from now.
Ogeron spent every waking second last season campaingin for the permanaent job. He was smart enough to know this was his ONLY shot for another power conf. HC job. USC passed on him. NO ONE in the SEC besides LSU would ever consider him for their HC position after the Ole Miss boondoggle. Hell, even LSU didn't want him as their first choice. If LSU did not have one of the WORST Athletic Directors in the COUNTRY, Ed Ogeron is the DL coach somewhere else this year badmouthing his "dream school" (LSU)
So now you have a situation where the new HC is, predictably, tanking the program. Ed knows the fans are furious. He knows that MANY didn't want him to be the HC in the first place. He knows much (not all) of the media thought it was ridiculous that LSU replaced Les Miles with basically a cartoon character.
The first plan of attack was to quiet all the naysayers by winning and showing he could lead a dominant program. After a historic loss to an average MSU team and an even more embarrassing loss vs. a Sun Belt opponent, that plan went out the window because it was clear, AGAIN, that Ogeron isn't good enough to win on merit.
Now he has gone to plan B with the SOLE goal of making sure HE remains the HC. That plan is to become extra-tight with the guy who hired and who can fire him. That's all this is. Job preservation. In the process Ed is throwing everyone under the bus but him (players aren't good enough; coaches aren't good enough) and trying to convince Alleva that nothing that is going wrong this season is Ed's fault.
What's going to happen, because Joe Alleva is a fricking clown, is this:
LSU will scrape together just enough wins in a really bad SEC to get to a bowl game. O will talk about how that's not good enough and what LSU really needs is "better players" (ignore the fact that the recruiting class likely won't be as good as the last 2-3 years); The coordinators will leave. Every head coach in the country already knew that Ogeron is a clown as an HC. NOW they will have proof that LSU's administration is clown show. It will be VERY easy for other coaches to pick off LSU's assistants. I can't imagine any of them are particularly thrilled with current mess at LSU. Ed will then bring in his OWN bunch of knuckleheads and things will really start to slide down.
If ANYONE at LSU had ANY business sense whatsoever, they would eat this multi-million dollar mistake and basically chalk it up as a bad debt. They would then get a competent AD in as soon as possible and allow him to fire Ogeron and get a real coach to lead this program. In doing so, you give the new coach a chance to right the ship very quickly. There are a lot of 1st and 2nd year players on this roster to build with. You suffer a bit of a set back in the 2018 recruiting class (like Texas and UGA did). However, you put yourself in good position to capitalize on what looks to be a really good 2019 crop of Louisiana players or players with Louisiana ties.
NOW is the time to treat the wound. If you don't, you're going to end up having to lop off the leg 2 years from now.
Posted on 10/11/17 at 9:18 am to Salviati
The cliff notes of the segment on the meeting (OP is welcome to include this if he wishes):
- Joe Alleva has taken to watching film with Orgeron on Sunday's.
- It has not been well received by the other coaches.
- Alleve one the one who suggested that they bring the coordinators in.
- Most athletic directors wouldn't do that.
- Barry Alvarez, who was a great coach and not AD, would never meet with coach and coordinators. If asked by HC, he would look at film independently and have a private conversation to discuss.
- This doesn't happen because it shows a lack of respect for HC.
- It's Alleva's right to point out things that aren't going well, but for the AD to be the person that everything funnels through is not a good look.
- The coordinators were affirmed in their belief that it's their call to do what they want to.
- Saying the meeting worked because LSU beat Florida is shortsighted.
- What happens when other problems take place? Do the coordinators go to the HC or the AD? Reaffirmed that it's a bad look.
- Noted that this all should have been kept in house. Leaking it to the media makes the HC look weak in front of the team. Not the right way to do it.
- Why did meeting take place? Orgeron felt that with youth on offensive line, pre-snap scheme & motions were too confusing. Canada believed just the opposite.
- Short version of what makes Canada's offense work: Pre-snap motions mask Oline deficiencies and talent discrepancy. Offense's success is predicated on making defenses defend the jet sweep preventing them from teeing off on QB in the pocket or overloading the front against the inside run.
- Orgeron's theory is "good ol' boy" toughness. Does not emphasize getting "more out of less" from the line.
- Not running Canada's offense cost LSU the Troy game IN LANDRY'S OPINION. He does not believe Orgeron will meddle in offense again.
- Concern going forward is will Orgeron meddle the next time something is not working well.
- Why did meeting happen? From 3 sources who spoke to either one, or both coordinators: Coordinators were empowered to run their units as they see fit. Communication with Orgeron is necessary, but Alleva told Orgeron to let them coach the way they want to.
- Pressure is on coordinators because of the structure. They are coaching for future jobs as well as the current season.
- "Everyone's reputation is at stake here."
- It's a problem when the coordinators don't respect the HC's accumen due to lack of knowledge on running an offense and/or defense.
- Most situations include coordinators who "look up" to the HC, and are being empowered by HC to take charge, but coordinators have the option to "tap in to" the HC's knowledge to help them grow as coach. This is a "void" at LSU, and "is a long-term problem".
- Alleva told coordinators "they are in charge in front of Orgeron". Re-emphasized the lack of respect to the HC in doing so. Gives coordinators too much power.
- What is Alleva so involved? Paraphrasing: "That's what he's always wanted and he did not get that with Les Miles. That's why he hired Orgeron. He wanted to have the ability to put his two cents in. It's his toy. Les Miles, nor any other coach, would put up with that."
- Orgeron listens to too many people regarding how the program should be run. Specifically mentioned Pete Jenkins and coordinators.
- Difficult when coordinators are telling the HC what to do rather than it being the HC telling coordinators.
- It is Canada's offense and Aranda's show going forward. "Always subject to change".
- Around the country, responses from AD's, head coaches & assistant coaches is that this meeting was "strong indicator" in lack of faith in Orgeron. Needs to be "looked at and followed closely".
- Win against Florida is not an indicator that long-term success is viable.
- Joe Alleva has taken to watching film with Orgeron on Sunday's.
- It has not been well received by the other coaches.
- Alleve one the one who suggested that they bring the coordinators in.
- Most athletic directors wouldn't do that.
- Barry Alvarez, who was a great coach and not AD, would never meet with coach and coordinators. If asked by HC, he would look at film independently and have a private conversation to discuss.
- This doesn't happen because it shows a lack of respect for HC.
- It's Alleva's right to point out things that aren't going well, but for the AD to be the person that everything funnels through is not a good look.
- The coordinators were affirmed in their belief that it's their call to do what they want to.
- Saying the meeting worked because LSU beat Florida is shortsighted.
- What happens when other problems take place? Do the coordinators go to the HC or the AD? Reaffirmed that it's a bad look.
- Noted that this all should have been kept in house. Leaking it to the media makes the HC look weak in front of the team. Not the right way to do it.
- Why did meeting take place? Orgeron felt that with youth on offensive line, pre-snap scheme & motions were too confusing. Canada believed just the opposite.
- Short version of what makes Canada's offense work: Pre-snap motions mask Oline deficiencies and talent discrepancy. Offense's success is predicated on making defenses defend the jet sweep preventing them from teeing off on QB in the pocket or overloading the front against the inside run.
- Orgeron's theory is "good ol' boy" toughness. Does not emphasize getting "more out of less" from the line.
- Not running Canada's offense cost LSU the Troy game IN LANDRY'S OPINION. He does not believe Orgeron will meddle in offense again.
- Concern going forward is will Orgeron meddle the next time something is not working well.
- Why did meeting happen? From 3 sources who spoke to either one, or both coordinators: Coordinators were empowered to run their units as they see fit. Communication with Orgeron is necessary, but Alleva told Orgeron to let them coach the way they want to.
- Pressure is on coordinators because of the structure. They are coaching for future jobs as well as the current season.
- "Everyone's reputation is at stake here."
- It's a problem when the coordinators don't respect the HC's accumen due to lack of knowledge on running an offense and/or defense.
- Most situations include coordinators who "look up" to the HC, and are being empowered by HC to take charge, but coordinators have the option to "tap in to" the HC's knowledge to help them grow as coach. This is a "void" at LSU, and "is a long-term problem".
- Alleva told coordinators "they are in charge in front of Orgeron". Re-emphasized the lack of respect to the HC in doing so. Gives coordinators too much power.
- What is Alleva so involved? Paraphrasing: "That's what he's always wanted and he did not get that with Les Miles. That's why he hired Orgeron. He wanted to have the ability to put his two cents in. It's his toy. Les Miles, nor any other coach, would put up with that."
- Orgeron listens to too many people regarding how the program should be run. Specifically mentioned Pete Jenkins and coordinators.
- Difficult when coordinators are telling the HC what to do rather than it being the HC telling coordinators.
- It is Canada's offense and Aranda's show going forward. "Always subject to change".
- Around the country, responses from AD's, head coaches & assistant coaches is that this meeting was "strong indicator" in lack of faith in Orgeron. Needs to be "looked at and followed closely".
- Win against Florida is not an indicator that long-term success is viable.
Posted on 10/11/17 at 9:20 am to jmon
quote:
My takeaway is that Alleva got involved and affirmed that O was to let the coordinators do their job
I agree completely
quote:
Is this a normal thing that happens at universities? Apparently not when Miles was there as Alleva was basically shrugged off by CLM, but O does not have that luxury, apparently.
I would think no it's not normal for the AD to be having meetings like this taking away authority from the Head Coach. In my opinion it shows a lack of respect for the knowledge and ability of Coach O to get the job done. I wasn't happy about the Head Coach hire but LSU has to live with it for now unless boosters pony up million's more for the buyout's
Posted on 10/11/17 at 9:26 am to Skidaddy
You can take Landry to the bank.
Anyone who disputes his info either has an agenda or doesn't know who Landry is.
Anyone who disputes his info either has an agenda or doesn't know who Landry is.
Posted on 10/11/17 at 9:32 am to SoloTiger
I agree. He sounds like he would make a GREAT AD for LSU !! 
Posted on 10/11/17 at 9:35 am to JPLSU1981
Sounds like a level of panic by Joe and O.
Posted on 10/11/17 at 9:50 am to Alt26
Alt 26--
-Bravo sir. I agree with everything. This should be its own thread. Sorry quote button not working
-Bravo sir. I agree with everything. This should be its own thread. Sorry quote button not working
This post was edited on 10/11/17 at 9:52 am
Posted on 10/11/17 at 9:59 am to RB10
So O is nothing more than a puppet for alleva
Great
Great
Posted on 10/11/17 at 10:02 am to JPLSU1981
Well after checking it out for myself it seems I may be wrong. There may be some truth to this and if so it's truly a mess in this program.
This post was edited on 10/11/17 at 10:13 am
Posted on 10/11/17 at 10:05 am to BayouBengal99
You obviously don't know Chris Landry's reputation and didn't listen to the podcast.
Posted on 10/11/17 at 10:08 am to Alt26
quote:
Alt26
, I couldn't have said it any better.This post was edited on 10/11/17 at 10:10 am
Posted on 10/11/17 at 10:15 am to BayouBengal99
quote:
Well after checking it out for myself it seems I may be wrong. There may be some truth to this and if so it's truly a mess in this program.
Man of you to admit that.
We've got issues, for sure, that we need to address as an organization immediately.
This post was edited on 10/11/17 at 10:16 am
Posted on 10/11/17 at 10:44 am to tigerborderjumper
quote:Joe knows LSU's probably throwing the baby out with the bathwater (he's out too if O fails), and he's doing all he can to make sure that doesn't happen.
Sounds like a level of panic by Joe and O.
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