re: Anybody here still think O was a bad hire?

I mean, that’s not exactly two sentences that really say ANYTHING.

I didn't think it was a bad hire but thought it might be a lazy hire. I thought it had the potential to be great (similar to Clemson not having a coordinator as HC) but history pointed to it likely not working. O has done a great job of fixing what needs to be fixed while also having continuity in the program. We aren't losing half our staff every year which I like, recruiting still going well, players aren't getting in serious trouble, and we're winning. Not sure how anyone could still think it's a bad hire.

Some people will never get it or admit when they're wrong (Idiots) Red is not red

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Can you expand on this? just curious

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Dabo was Clemson's WR coach and recruiting coordinator until Tommy Bowden resigned after taking a top 10 preseason team to 3-3. Dabo immediately fired Bowden's OC and made structural changes that impressed decision makers and got players motivated, getting him the permanent job. He was known mainly as a recruiter and a motivator, and plucked a guy named Chad Morris from Tulsa to install a new fast paced offense different from anything Clemson had run before. In 2016, Dabo had taken Clemson from middling ACC team to contender by being detail oriented, making good decisions at the top that provided a stable environment for his program, rallying support from boosters, recruiting his arse off, and not being afraid to hire good assistants who ran systems unfamiliar to him. That's almost to the letter what Orgeron promised he would do in the infamous binder.

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There was information available that suggested Orgeron could be successful here. I pointed out quite a bit of it at the time.

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There's always that chance. We're dealing in probabilities here and I'd argue that purely from an EV point of view, it was a negative EV play. However, I do agree that if it did work out, there was a good chance that it would work out really well. I felt like O would have learned from previous mistakes and wouldn't repeat them. I also knew he would be a good recruiter. So maybe I should soften my stance that it was a trainwreck of a hire and say that it was a bad one that had a decent chance of working out spectacularly.

I still believe that the whole process of firing Miles and hiring a new coach was a clusterfrick.

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And the Information available to people like you doesn’t compare to the information available to the person or people making the hire.

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That's true but it also applies to all of us here.

My only point in this discussion is that you can't use the fact that a decision worked out well for you as evidence that it was a good decision.

i liked him for LSU from the begining, nothing like home grown love

This what I posted when most LSU fans wanted Herman or Fisher:
LINK

And I got down voted.

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I have to admit, I thought it was a bad hire. However, he is proving me wrong every day. And I couldn't be happier.

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Based on the information available at the time, it wasn’t a good hire.

There are a lot of unknowns when you hire a head coach. In hindsight, it looks like it’s working out well. Recruiting, QB development of HS kids and replacing coordinators will determine the ability to sustain success going forward. We thought we had something special in Gary Crowton, but one year with a 5th year senior QB doesn’t always tell the whole story. Can O retain Joe Brady or get someone as productive to replace him. Can Joe Brady replicate this production with Miles Brennan or develop his own QB from scratch? A lot of questions remain, even if they make the playoff this season.