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re: On3: Going rate for OT/DL
Posted on 11/22/23 at 7:50 am to misey94
Posted on 11/22/23 at 7:50 am to misey94
I agree it's 100% pay for play and NIL is how they do it. What I don't understand is why people have a problem with it. I also agree that the players are employees. That is exactly what they are. I think they should get paid and should not be on scholarship to include getting all that extra money such as tuition differential, financial aid, a monthly stipend.
Those young men are not recruited to go to class at LSU. They aren't given academic scholarships. They are given athletic scholarships and are expected to be good at football. Call it what it is.
If every player on LSU's team had a 4.0 GPA and had plans to attend some sort of graduate or professional school but LSU's football team was winless, we would all be yelling for BK to be fired. There would chaos at LSU. Not one fan would argue that those guys are students first and we should celebrate their academic achievement. No! We would argue that the team sucks and we didn't bring those guys to LSU to be nerds. We brought them here to be good at football. So let's just stop pretending that these guys are students and call them what they are - EMPLOYEES.
So yeah. You're right. They are employees and should be paid as such. Also, since they are the ones who are on the field playing the game and have more impact on a teams success than anyone else, then they should definitely be compensated handsomely. Who deserves to be paid more? The defensive staff at LSU or Jayden Daniels and his teammates on the offensive side of the ball?
If the players weren't so important to having a great team, then schools wouldn't spend millions of dollars in recruiting budgets and every day of the year recruiting them.
Pay to play is how our society works. It's how our government works. Every one of our elected leaders is for sale. Everything is for sale - all of the time. That's capitalism.
Those young men are not recruited to go to class at LSU. They aren't given academic scholarships. They are given athletic scholarships and are expected to be good at football. Call it what it is.
If every player on LSU's team had a 4.0 GPA and had plans to attend some sort of graduate or professional school but LSU's football team was winless, we would all be yelling for BK to be fired. There would chaos at LSU. Not one fan would argue that those guys are students first and we should celebrate their academic achievement. No! We would argue that the team sucks and we didn't bring those guys to LSU to be nerds. We brought them here to be good at football. So let's just stop pretending that these guys are students and call them what they are - EMPLOYEES.
So yeah. You're right. They are employees and should be paid as such. Also, since they are the ones who are on the field playing the game and have more impact on a teams success than anyone else, then they should definitely be compensated handsomely. Who deserves to be paid more? The defensive staff at LSU or Jayden Daniels and his teammates on the offensive side of the ball?
If the players weren't so important to having a great team, then schools wouldn't spend millions of dollars in recruiting budgets and every day of the year recruiting them.
Pay to play is how our society works. It's how our government works. Every one of our elected leaders is for sale. Everything is for sale - all of the time. That's capitalism.
1
Posted on 11/22/23 at 8:17 am to Dicken Nuggets
quote:
So yeah. You're right. They are employees and should be paid as such.
But they ARE NOT employees the way things work today. I guess they should be at this point, but NIL in its current form is not a proper substitute for a real employer-employee relationship.
The downside of all this is that the price to watch college football, both on tv and in-person, could go up a lot to support such a shift. The current model of ESPN and Fox TV contracts bankrolling the entire sport is already strained as things transition away from cable to streaming. Prices are already set to increase just to maintain the status quo.
Add in paying all players in the P5 a minimum salary to the current budgets at schools and everything related to college football will go up to support it. Potentially by a lot. If enough fans, and there are a lot of casuals who watch today because it’s easy and relatively cheap, get fed up and check out on the sport, things could get ugly. A pay for play system may be unsustainable on the scale we’re talking about.
This post was edited on 11/22/23 at 8:18 am
Posted on 11/22/23 at 8:52 am to Captain Crown
Sad state of affairs we are in. I can't see any of this being good other than dumping money on someone. This is controlling the college football scene and will eventually further ruin the only good things about it.
Posted on 11/22/23 at 9:22 am to 6R12
Amateurism in Power 5 football is a myth and has been for decades. Schools and entities that profit from college football have received billions of dollars in windfalls due to the legacy of amateurism. Schools have merely had to provide tuition, room, board, perks, etc. typically at or around marginal cost.
How much would players receive in compensation above and beyond tuition, room, board, perks, etc. if there were no regulations preventing them from receiving that compensation?
College football generates more than $4 billion in annual revenue for the 65 universities making up the Power 5. That’s over $60 million per university. ($4 billion / 65)
Most of the major professional sports share revenue between teams and players. Typically, it's right around 50%-50%.
50% of $60 million is $30 million. How many Power 5 schools are paying their players an aggregate of $30 million?
As a firm believer in free markets, I believe the players should receive what the market would bear if there were no regulations preventing them from receiving that compensation.
Why should government and quasi-government regulations prohibit players from earning market compensation?
How many professional sports have coaches who are paid multiples of the highest paid player?
How much would players receive in compensation above and beyond tuition, room, board, perks, etc. if there were no regulations preventing them from receiving that compensation?
College football generates more than $4 billion in annual revenue for the 65 universities making up the Power 5. That’s over $60 million per university. ($4 billion / 65)
Most of the major professional sports share revenue between teams and players. Typically, it's right around 50%-50%.
50% of $60 million is $30 million. How many Power 5 schools are paying their players an aggregate of $30 million?
As a firm believer in free markets, I believe the players should receive what the market would bear if there were no regulations preventing them from receiving that compensation.
Why should government and quasi-government regulations prohibit players from earning market compensation?
quote:So if a team pays all 85 players $100,000, the total player payroll would be $8.5 million. Seems like it might be too low.
“For really good players out of high school,” he says, “you’re talking $100,000 a year.”
– Ross Dellenger, Sports Illustrated
How many professional sports have coaches who are paid multiples of the highest paid player?
Posted on 11/22/23 at 9:43 am to Captain Crown
Many believe the "Star System" in recruiting can have its flaws. Doesn't segmentation of N.I.L. dollar "tiers" simply ratify the "Star System" as infallible?
Posted on 11/22/23 at 10:25 am to Salviati
quote:
So if a team pays all 85 players $100,000, the total player payroll would be $8.5 million. Seems like it might be too low. How many professional sports have coaches who are paid multiples of the highest paid player?
Going back to my point about the system possibly not being able to bear the cost of all this once streaming completely displaces cable, what you are talking about may be fair in terms of pro sports, but it isn’t going to work the way college football is set up today. If college football had a 50-50 division of revenue, then we won’t see 85 man rosters anymore. But with eligibility for college football limited and younger players, there’s a reason the rosters need to be bigger than a pro team’s.
I can see current pricing levels working with an 85 man roster, but with higher streaming and ticket prices to support it. But even that will depend on casuals not abandoning the sort when prices rise.
Posted on 11/22/23 at 11:40 am to misey94
quote:
But they ARE NOT employees the way things work today. I guess they should be at this point, but NIL in its current form is not a proper substitute for a real employer-employee relationship.
The downside of all this is that the price to watch college football, both on tv and in-person, could go up a lot to support such a shift. The current model of ESPN and Fox TV contracts bankrolling the entire sport is already strained as things transition away from cable to streaming. Prices are already set to increase just to maintain the status quo.
Add in paying all players in the P5 a minimum salary to the current budgets at schools and everything related to college football will go up to support it. Potentially by a lot. If enough fans, and there are a lot of casuals who watch today because it’s easy and relatively cheap, get fed up and check out on the sport, things could get ugly. A pay for play system may be unsustainable on the scale we’re talking about.
I don't disagree. What I will say is that decisions/choices have consequences. CFB can go to crap and fail and then they can figure out how to make it better.
The belief that the players shouldn't get paid is, in my opinion, indefensible. It's irrational.
The players deserve a significant portion of the revenue/profits generated from their participation in the sport.
I pay $10.55 month to On3's TheBengalTiger.com to see my favorite team get the best players. On Saturdays in the fall, I turn on the tv to watch those players on my favorite team compete against other great teams. I don't tune in to watch BK on the sideline. I don't tune in to listen to the announcers. I don't tune in to look at the cheerleaders or the fans in the stadium. I tune in to watch LSU beat the hell out of whoever it is they are playing that particular week.
Yet somehow, someway everyone but the players is allowed to make hand-over-fist off of their performance on the field. It's wrong. Ask the players if they want a free education or cash payment for their service and answer will be unanimous. They want to get paid for what they do, especially when the pay for their service is significantly higher than whatever they would get paid for having a college degree.
This post was edited on 11/22/23 at 11:41 am
Posted on 11/22/23 at 11:59 am to Dicken Nuggets
If only there were a professional league for football where these players could be paid for playing.
Posted on 11/22/23 at 1:07 pm to Dicken Nuggets
quote:
Yet somehow, someway everyone but the players is allowed to make hand-over-fist off of their performance on the field. It's wrong. Ask the players if they want a free education or cash payment for their service and answer will be unanimous. They want to get paid for what they do, especially when the pay for their service is significantly higher than whatever they would get paid for having a college degree.
Should they be paid directly- Yes. Should they get NFL-level pay on day one in college- No. Should the roster as a whole get a 50-50 split? Absolutely not.
Ask yourself this- would a brand new employee in their first post-college job make the same salary as a senior executive? Would they get the same level of profit sharing/stock options and benefits from day one? Not even close. In fact, kids straight out of high school are more comparable to interns or apprentices than anything else in the professional working world most of us inhabit. And the pro sports world is no different. Look at the current rookie scales in the NFL and NBA. They are locked into much lower levels of salary than higher-level veterans based on where they are chosen in the draft. It’s the second contract where good players start making big money.
That said, I do think on the P5-level players deserve more than an intern would get (if anything in some fields) due to their high level of skill. But they also don’t deserve to get a 50-50 revenue split with the entire football program or athletic department. That can be earned if they make it to the next level.
This post was edited on 11/22/23 at 1:08 pm
Posted on 11/22/23 at 1:14 pm to Captain Crown
Just think; a lot of these kids are making a whole lot more money playing college football than they will ever earn after leaving college. It's ridiculous.
Posted on 11/23/23 at 7:09 am to Captain Crown
This shows that schools like A&M have no money advantage over LSU yet. At $300k a player, you could buy a starting 22 for $6.6 million, maybe $7.5 to get the good QB. LSU has at least a dozen alumni, who care about football, who are worth billions. One of those guys could bankroll the whole thing for 10 years and it would only cost him $75 million. A guy like Todd Graves would see his wealth plummet from $7.6 billion to $7.525 billion. 
And that’s if only one guy does it. If 10 do it, it becomes nothing to them.
And that’s if only one guy does it. If 10 do it, it becomes nothing to them.
Posted on 11/23/23 at 2:49 pm to misey94
quote:
seems like Kelly has a public face when it comes to NIL, but has still been willing to play the game when it’s required. Or at least work together with the collectives that do, as needed.
He does still have a job to do.
Posted on 11/23/23 at 3:00 pm to Dicken Nuggets
Only a small group of college teams make a profit from football. If it goes pay for play, you won’t have teams to play and there won’t be football.
Posted on 11/23/23 at 8:45 pm to Penrod
I think you are overestimating that amount of billionaires that care that much about LSU football.
Todd Graves is literally the richest person in Louisiana. There aren't 10 Todd Graves just sitting around looking for something to throw tens of millions of dollars at.
quote:
A guy like Todd Graves would see his wealth plummet from $7.6 billion to $7.525 billion.
Todd Graves is literally the richest person in Louisiana. There aren't 10 Todd Graves just sitting around looking for something to throw tens of millions of dollars at.
Posted on 11/23/23 at 11:07 pm to LSBoosie
The National Labor Relations Board lawsuit vs USC, NCAA and PAC-12 in the same district court that gave us NIL...is a lawsuit seeking to have 12 USC football player ruled employees of the University. If this happens then Unionization will occur in college football and all players will make money not just the 5-4 star players..you will have 85 players making anywhere from 100,000 to 250,000...payrolls for players will be 9-15 million. Experts say that 50-60 of the 128 D-I schools will drop football if this ruling happens. The ruling is going to occur before Dec. 31!
Posted on 11/23/23 at 11:50 pm to Captain Crown
I don’t know what kind of regulations or restrictions they are talking about imposing but they better make sure they can pass constitutional muster. That is how we got here to begin with.
Posted on 11/24/23 at 1:58 am to Dicken Nuggets
You are a complete moron! This isn’t free market capitalism. Their product didn’t create the money they’re generating. These kids didn’t do anything to create the market.
Would you pay someone top pay simply because that person had promise to elevate your company but has never stepped foot in the field your company is located in? If you simply hand out top pay to everyone you hire within your company without a resume or past experience, you think you’ll have a successful company for long?
Free market capitalism is when the product generates that capital based off of success and demand for the product. These kids didn’t generate a damn thing prior to playing in college. If HS and college were the same or even comparable then you’d have a point but they are NOT remotely the same or even comparable!
Now once they get to college and prove that they are worth that 500k or whatever it is, then you can talk free market economics. Until then, it’s a joke to compare what’s happening in CFB to free market capitalism. This is just handing out money to kids that don’t know who the hell they are and it will end up ruining more kids than helping. This is people with more money then they know what to do with, taking advantage of these kids to benefit the school they want to win. It’s not healthy for anyone.
Would you pay someone top pay simply because that person had promise to elevate your company but has never stepped foot in the field your company is located in? If you simply hand out top pay to everyone you hire within your company without a resume or past experience, you think you’ll have a successful company for long?
Free market capitalism is when the product generates that capital based off of success and demand for the product. These kids didn’t generate a damn thing prior to playing in college. If HS and college were the same or even comparable then you’d have a point but they are NOT remotely the same or even comparable!
Now once they get to college and prove that they are worth that 500k or whatever it is, then you can talk free market economics. Until then, it’s a joke to compare what’s happening in CFB to free market capitalism. This is just handing out money to kids that don’t know who the hell they are and it will end up ruining more kids than helping. This is people with more money then they know what to do with, taking advantage of these kids to benefit the school they want to win. It’s not healthy for anyone.
Posted on 11/24/23 at 9:03 am to Salviati
quote:
So if a team pays all 85 players $100,000, the total player payroll would be $8.5 million. Seems like it might be too low.
The majority of the players on a roster aren't worth the scholarship money, much less $100k.
An annual full athletic scholarship is worth between $50,000 and $200,000+, depending on the school.
Those that talk of the free market are still for keeping the full scholarships as a safety-net fallback.
I say let's get rid of the scholarships and make it a real free market and see which system players prefer.
Outside of a handful of elite players, college football players are only worth replacement value.
Posted on 11/24/23 at 11:13 am to Bjorn Cyborg
If we really wanted a free market the NCAA would be allowed to operate as it had been. Then since that is such a terrible model for the athletes and so many fans think it’s an injustice, they would all stop voluntarily participating in it and the market would be ripe for a pro league specifically for the development of 18-22 year olds.
Surely it would be a huge money maker.
Surely it would be a huge money maker.
Posted on 11/24/23 at 11:41 am to Captain Crown
College football died when it became pay to play....I mean NIL.
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