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Message
re: I have a drinking problem. Help. ***Update Page 4***
Posted on 11/13/22 at 11:18 am to pwejr88
Posted on 11/13/22 at 11:18 am to pwejr88
quote:I'm not disputing that it has and can help many people. I know many people who have tried it (for years). I've seen big success and I've seen big failure (same with NA).
You’re trying to diminish a proven way to help someone stop drinking.
quote:I'm not sure where you got this. It was started by Dr. Bob (a surgeon with no expertise in addiction) and a band of religious zealots (with big influence from Carl Jung).
AA was literally started by a doctor and dozens of medical professionals
quote:More tired, regurgitated nonsense.
Drugs lead to drinking and drinking leads to drugs. Trying to cure one with the other is futile.
quote:No, I am not an alcoholic. However, living in America, I'm around no shortage of them.
Are you an alcoholic? How did you get sober?
My objection here is to the blanket statements and recommendations thrown around by people like you. Again, you have casually repeated the non-truth (as advice) to another poster that JUST ONE DRINK, AND IT ALL COMES CRASHING DOWN!!!!! That is nonsense that has taken completely hold in TV and the movies. It infantilizes adults and takes agency away from them.
In the majority of cases - like depression et al - the "cause" of alcoholism (or any addiction) is underlying/root trauma that is being papered over with the substance. This is why my recommendation to the OP was to consider a more direct/"extreme" attempt to connect with that source material such as psychedelic therapy.
There are many such places (unfortunately, basically all outside the country because of our preposterous laws) that are helping people daily. If the OP is a vet, there are at least 2 charities sending vets to facilities for lifesaving help in breaking these addictions ( VETS Heroic Hearts)
The success rate for this approach is much higher than some one size fits all approach.
But I am also annoyed that groups like AA frown on medicines like naltrexone, psilocybin and ibogaine.
4
Posted on 11/13/22 at 12:00 pm to Big Scrub TX
Hey Tex, there is a new Cochrane analysis that shows AA is effective, must have missed that in your completely unbiased analysis. Your black and white thinking is obvious. The face that you aren’t sober is also obvious.
LINK
LINK
Posted on 11/13/22 at 12:25 pm to NewOrleansBlend
quote:I'm well aware of this meta analysis - it was pretty big news when it came out. The claim is that AA is relatively more effective than other treatment methods (I would point out that generic "twelve step facilitation" methods is also one of the comparative treatments.)
Hey Tex, there is a new Cochrane analysis that shows AA is effective, must have missed that in your completely unbiased analysis.
I'm not sure why you think this would be news I would want to avoid. I have problems with the ENTIRE addiction-treatment complex - not just AA.
quote:If you feel the need to make random ad hom, you do you.
The face that you aren’t sober is also obvious.
Posted on 11/13/22 at 1:25 pm to Big Scrub TX
It funny you didn’t mention the most pertinent, well conducted, study on AA effectiveness then. It shows bias clearly
Now I should add that I agree with you about drug abuse largely being a symptom of a deeper underlying problem and the benefits of other modalities, particularly psychotherapy and mindfulness in treating that. I also agree that the limited data on psychedelics is encouraging, but my enthusiasm is tempered by the fact that these patients also receive intense therapy before and after the “trip”, the importance of which I believe is huge on the outcome. Can these results be reproduced on a large scale is a big question.
But I absolutely believe, and the data supports, that AA is effective for many people, but certainly not all.
Now I should add that I agree with you about drug abuse largely being a symptom of a deeper underlying problem and the benefits of other modalities, particularly psychotherapy and mindfulness in treating that. I also agree that the limited data on psychedelics is encouraging, but my enthusiasm is tempered by the fact that these patients also receive intense therapy before and after the “trip”, the importance of which I believe is huge on the outcome. Can these results be reproduced on a large scale is a big question.
But I absolutely believe, and the data supports, that AA is effective for many people, but certainly not all.
This post was edited on 11/13/22 at 1:41 pm
Posted on 11/13/22 at 1:33 pm to King Crab
First of, acknowledging this is an issue is a big first step, so congratulations.
I tell ya what helped me. I was in the same boat, didn't feel like drinking all the time.
I realized I needed to win the morning. To do that, I needed to win the evening. I began by working on everything around the house after work to wear myself out. If I was too busy to drink, then that would keep my mind off things.
Then, I decided to work out each morning. Yes, at 4am I'd wake up and be in the garage lifting at 4:30am. There is no other time. The afternoons get sideways easy. I do this to help wear my arse out in the evening. I don't have much of a social life these days. I'm working 50-60 hrs a week, some of that is farm work and then weekends is farm or house work. Family life is centered on the farm, so family time is built in there.
Keeping busy is key for me. If I do not make lifting a priority in the morning, my whole system crashes. I wont drink, but I become lazy....which I now will lead to drinking.
I tell ya what helped me. I was in the same boat, didn't feel like drinking all the time.
I realized I needed to win the morning. To do that, I needed to win the evening. I began by working on everything around the house after work to wear myself out. If I was too busy to drink, then that would keep my mind off things.
Then, I decided to work out each morning. Yes, at 4am I'd wake up and be in the garage lifting at 4:30am. There is no other time. The afternoons get sideways easy. I do this to help wear my arse out in the evening. I don't have much of a social life these days. I'm working 50-60 hrs a week, some of that is farm work and then weekends is farm or house work. Family life is centered on the farm, so family time is built in there.
Keeping busy is key for me. If I do not make lifting a priority in the morning, my whole system crashes. I wont drink, but I become lazy....which I now will lead to drinking.
Posted on 11/13/22 at 2:02 pm to Big Scrub TX
quote:
No, I am not an alcoholic
Thanks. Makes sense.
Posted on 11/13/22 at 4:43 pm to King Crab
There are definitely AA meetings on your area. There are maybe 12 a day at noon on BR. Alcoholics are everywhere. If you want to quit and can’t it’s a good place to start.
Everyone should work the 12 steps. Addict or not. It brings clarity and peace to your life.
That said, I don’t think people trading their addiction to alcohol with an addiction to AA makes sense.
Everyone should work the 12 steps. Addict or not. It brings clarity and peace to your life.
That said, I don’t think people trading their addiction to alcohol with an addiction to AA makes sense.
Posted on 11/13/22 at 4:53 pm to Big Scrub TX
You can’t quantify the results of AA. You can’t go to meetings and drink coffee and take 4 smoke breaks and expect results. Half the people are court ordered.
It’s hugely successful for those that actually do the work.
Alcoholism is not logical. You know you feel better after a good workout than after a pint of rot gut. But you still choose the latter.
Find somebody solid to take you through the steps. It shouldn’t take more than a month. Bill W did it in three days. That was the point. Not to drag it out over a couple years drinking sheddy coffee with miserable people.
It’s hugely successful for those that actually do the work.
Alcoholism is not logical. You know you feel better after a good workout than after a pint of rot gut. But you still choose the latter.
Find somebody solid to take you through the steps. It shouldn’t take more than a month. Bill W did it in three days. That was the point. Not to drag it out over a couple years drinking sheddy coffee with miserable people.
Posted on 11/13/22 at 5:01 pm to Big Scrub TX
quote:
Big Scrub TX
I’m fine with people not buying into AA. I also believe that “alcoholics” can address their issues and have a couple beers. That is completely counter to AA.
I don’t understand taking a dump on an institution based on fellowship and individual effort. Especially if you don’t have a better alternative.
Posted on 11/13/22 at 7:39 pm to Big Scrub TX
quote:
This is why my recommendation to the OP was to consider a more direct/"extreme" attempt to connect with that source material such as psychedelic therapy.
There are many such places (unfortunately, basically all outside the country because of our preposterous laws) that are helping people daily.
What is the ballpark cost? I heard comedian Ron White on a podcast. He went to Costa Rica for auyuascha therapy to stop drinking and implied it was very expensive.
Posted on 11/14/22 at 6:05 am to pwejr88
quote:
AA started 87 years ago, millions have gotten, and stayed sober, and AA is in 180 countries out of 195 on the globe. Yeah.. I’d say the numbers support its proven success. There are many ways to stay sober. I wanted the best odds and AA gave me that.
AA has a low success rate because you basically have to do it the rest of your life.
It doesn’t kick your actual addiction.
Which is why you can be sober for 20 years, have one drink and wind up naked in Mexico.
Posted on 11/14/22 at 6:44 am to dgnx6
quote:Nothing does. The program helps you live without having to lean on booze in good or bad times of life
It doesn’t kick your actual addiction.
Once an alcoholic, always one
Posted on 11/14/22 at 7:24 am to King Crab
I took my favorite picture of my wife and my kids and I wrote on the back “which do you love more” and I put that picture in my wallet and forced myself to look at it everytime I thought about having a drink. Some days I chose poorly. And I forced myself after those days to meditate on what is important in my life. I forced my self to confront the pain and guilt after a night of drinking. I beat it and I’ve Been sober from alchohol for 2 years now and honestly my entire life is better. Don’t try to change too much at once. Just focus on the drinking. Then diet. Then exercise.
Focus on one aspect at a time.
If you try to start a bunch of habits all at once you’ll get overwhelmed and relapse. For a couple weeks or month just focus on not drinking.
I don’t know if you’re religious, but prayer absolutely helps. You don’t have to become a zealot. Pray by yourself with an open heart once a day and God will reach you.
Matthew 6:5-13
Focus on one aspect at a time.
If you try to start a bunch of habits all at once you’ll get overwhelmed and relapse. For a couple weeks or month just focus on not drinking.
I don’t know if you’re religious, but prayer absolutely helps. You don’t have to become a zealot. Pray by yourself with an open heart once a day and God will reach you.
Matthew 6:5-13
quote:
when you pray, do not be like the hypocrites, for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and on the street corners to be seen by others. Truly I tell you, they have received their reward in full.
6 But when you pray, go into your room, close the door and pray to your Father, who is unseen. Then your Father, who sees what is done in secret, will reward you.
7 And when you pray, do not keep on babbling like pagans, for they think they will be heard because of their many words. 8 Do not be like them, for your Father knows what you need before you ask him. 9 “This, then, is how you should pray: “
‘Our Father in heaven, hallowed be your name, 10 your kingdom come, your will be done, on earth as it is in heaven. 11 Give us today our daily bread. 12 And forgive us our debts, as we also have forgiven our debtors. 13 And lead us not into temptation,but deliver us from the evil one.
Posted on 11/14/22 at 7:24 am to King Crab
I haven't quit completely but I went from drinking 7 nights a week (anywhere from 2 to 10 drinks a night) to a few drinks socially on the weekend. The biggest thing that helped was staying busy in the evenings. I'd get home from work and instead of cracking a beer or pouring bourbon I'd get on my bike and ride for 30 or 45 minutes. Also kept a bunch of Lacroix and TopoChico in the fridge as a replacement. It was a tough first couple of months because it felt like I couldn't go to sleep and would lay in bed awake for an hour or two. Once I got past that it was a lot easier. I'd been daily drinking (with a few attempts at quitting) for close to 10 years. I started when I went from working nights for two years back to days and starting drinking to help fall asleep.
Posted on 11/14/22 at 8:28 am to dgnx6
quote:
It doesn’t kick your actual addiction
Nothing does. You’re an alcoholic or addict for life. It’s genetic. A have a friend that’s a doctor and he told me in the next two decades science will even be able to pinpoint the addict-impacted chromosome.
You cannot be cured from alcoholism. All you can do is have a daily deliverance based on your spiritual condition and outlook on life.
This post was edited on 11/14/22 at 8:45 am
Posted on 11/14/22 at 9:06 am to pwejr88
There is no gene that determines whether or not you will become an addict, it’s not that simple. There are genes that modestly increase your risk but a history of early life trauma is much more predictive
Posted on 11/14/22 at 11:31 am to King Crab
quote:
It's not destroying my personal relationships, yet
No need to wait to reach that point. Mine was not destroying my ability to be productive, but was jeopardizing my marriage. Wasn't drinking every day, but drank a lot and couldn't control how much I drank when I did. I went to AA meetings when I realized it was a problem. I did not follow thru with all the steps, but definitely appreciated the meetings. Totally not what I thought. Never got a sponsor or anything as I don't think I had an addiction, just a "problem" like you mentioned. Just listening to strong people talk about how they live without alcohol was enough for me to stay sober for a few months. Stopped with meetings after those few months, but kept staying sober. Tomorrow is 1 year for me.
Posted on 11/14/22 at 12:02 pm to Irregardless
Have y’all ever heard of rat park?
Rat park is an experiment where they put a bunch of rats in this shitty maze by themselves and gave them buttons to push connected to a water bottle spiked with various drugs. Alcohol, cocaine, heroin
Basically the rats drank themselves to death
But when you put the rat with their friends in a fun maze they wouldn’t use drugs
Basically we live in rat park. It’s like a shitty banana republic where we pick taxes against our will
To get out of this you’re gonna have to go deep down and fix your lack of purpose. If you think sitting in meetings will do that then go for it
Rat park is an experiment where they put a bunch of rats in this shitty maze by themselves and gave them buttons to push connected to a water bottle spiked with various drugs. Alcohol, cocaine, heroin
Basically the rats drank themselves to death
But when you put the rat with their friends in a fun maze they wouldn’t use drugs
Basically we live in rat park. It’s like a shitty banana republic where we pick taxes against our will
To get out of this you’re gonna have to go deep down and fix your lack of purpose. If you think sitting in meetings will do that then go for it
Posted on 11/14/22 at 12:20 pm to King Crab
Good luck to you, crab.
I don't have a drinking problem, but I do have other vices.
You've admitted the problem. That may be the biggest step.
I don't have a drinking problem, but I do have other vices.
You've admitted the problem. That may be the biggest step.
Posted on 11/14/22 at 12:55 pm to King Crab
what kind of means financially do you have? able to commit time away?
rehab is a scary thought. i know. but youre in a vicious cycle it that time away to be with like minded people and working on yourself really can be enough to get the ball rolling, and once rolling, the momentum is easy to keep up. its the getting it started part that's hardest.
edit: there seems to be a pissing match going on whether AA work sor not, which is really sad.
the truth is AA works for some people, and for some people it doesn't. Since it does help for some, you shouldn't be afraid to try a few meetings. They even have online ones if you really are that rural and cant find any locally (i doubt that).
if it doesn't work for you that shouldn't upset you either. I personally, don't get a lot out of AA meetings. I haven't been to one in quite some time. Yet, ive remained sober for near 2 years now, with not even close to slip up or break in my sobriety. For me it breaking the cycle, and figuring out why i was drinking and address those problems.
there are a lot of absolutes being throwing around in this thread. Nothing is absolute. What works for one person is not guaranteed to work for another.
rehab is a scary thought. i know. but youre in a vicious cycle it that time away to be with like minded people and working on yourself really can be enough to get the ball rolling, and once rolling, the momentum is easy to keep up. its the getting it started part that's hardest.
edit: there seems to be a pissing match going on whether AA work sor not, which is really sad.
the truth is AA works for some people, and for some people it doesn't. Since it does help for some, you shouldn't be afraid to try a few meetings. They even have online ones if you really are that rural and cant find any locally (i doubt that).
if it doesn't work for you that shouldn't upset you either. I personally, don't get a lot out of AA meetings. I haven't been to one in quite some time. Yet, ive remained sober for near 2 years now, with not even close to slip up or break in my sobriety. For me it breaking the cycle, and figuring out why i was drinking and address those problems.
there are a lot of absolutes being throwing around in this thread. Nothing is absolute. What works for one person is not guaranteed to work for another.
This post was edited on 11/14/22 at 1:23 pm
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