re: Morgan Stanley CEO to bankers: If you want NYC salary, you need to be in NYC

Don’t tell Mo that. To him everyone that works from home is just as productive simply because he is.

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Yes. I can get everything I need to run a screening or a combination model with S&P data, financials coming from their accounting system, IR presentations, and SEC filings. All NDAs & transaction agreements can be signed without ever having to be in an office. Large public filers generally don't just have important documents and data strewn about an office in file cabinets or on people's desks.

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Do you do healthcare? All the contracts are already scanned in for you? There's not any old ones? Or does nobody care about any of that anymore during due diligence?

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Is anyone arguing for never going back to an office or training ever again? People that have been working from home for years still go to shite with they're coworkers at least annually.

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I spent the first ~7 years of my career working in “remote” roles where I only went to the office for meetings and/or training. Not exactly the same situation because I was still driving to work in the field (at customer locations) but similar enough to say yes - it worked just fine. I got to download with people at the office whenever I went in, meet people in other departments face-to-face, hear about success/failure stories, etc.

However, the experience would have been a lot different if there had been no full-time office personnel. Now the only people present in those meetings would be my department. There wouldn’t be much point in going to an office or headquarters for training if nobody worked there - they might as well just do the trainings remotely.

In my current job, I have an office but don’t necessarily need to go there every day. My job requires me to facilitate/attend customer meetings (usually at their locations) so I still wouldn’t be 100% WFH, but I could certainly choose to have my home be my primary work location.

But I choose to go to the office because being immersed in the business is hugely beneficial for my job. I pick up on everything else going on in the company, problems people have run into and their solutions, and updates about what’s going on with various customers across the region. Some monthly newsletter is a poor substitute for that type of exposure IMO.

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WFH means you work from home unless there is a reason to go to an office. Training, client request, monthly meeting, etc.

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I also think this touches on another issue, which is that many people conflate “work from home” with “remote.” A lot of folks have taken “work from home” to mean move wherever you want because you don’t work at the office anymore. There’s a difference between working from home while being available to go to the office when necessary vs. working remotely and having to travel for any in-person meeting.

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Much of it is industry specific as well.

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It is. My previous job was working for a company that dealt in loans. So finance. The CEO was adamant that your arse was in your seat 8-5 every day, Monday through Friday. I was the IT infrastructure manager, so my guys were tasked with maintaining all the server and network equipment. We were required to run updates on the weekends only. The best part? Even though we could do the updates remotely, it was mandated that the updates were to be done in person only.

After not even a month on the job, I asked the CIO about comp time for my guys having to work on the weekends to do updates. He looked at me like I had a dick growing out of my forehead. His response was "they're salary. They'll work whatever hours they need to get the job done." Of course this shitstain never worked hours outside of 8-5.

Within one month, I quit, the information security officer quit, the operations manager quit, and the two primary network and system engineers quit.

Then they got in deep shite with the feds for financial record issues.

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In my organization

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I meant to ask this the other day in another thread you posted in.....is your username Epic Cajun because you work for Epic?

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Do you do healthcare? All the contracts are already scanned in for you? There's not any old ones? Or does nobody care about any of that anymore during due diligence?

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I don't work in healthcare. Anything that's CY-1 is included in historical financials. I'm not dealing with companies with insanely shoddy financial data and any errors won't likely be material as they're highly scrutinized huge public filers.

Ah ok. I actually interviewed with their information security group. Wanted to fly me out to Madison for an in-person, but based on the vibe I got from the manager I said no thanks. She was in charge of the entire cloud security group and had zero understanding of cloud security based on the pointed questions I asked her.

I was being recruited to be a senior security engineer, so not a normal entry level job. But when I realized my "boss" knew less about security than some interns I've had, I said no thanks.

ETA: I have a buddy who's a high-level citrix guy. As in they flew him in to Florida to help write the top-tier citrix architect cert. He interviewed with them as well after I did. His response was the same: their mid and top level management, on the IT side, are all incompetent.